What corners were cut on the production models

[Flatpicker]

I would really love to hear from Bionic if the wood on the necks or bodies of the production guitars is sub-standard compared to the wood on the CS guitars. Where does one go to find cheap Poplar or Ashe wood, to cut corners? Doesn't make any sense to me.

I can see if the bodies on the production guitars are made with 3 pieces instead of 2, or mass produced to lower cost. But cheaper wood?

Mike?

It's not substandard. But, it's probably not as visually appealing for a clear stain.
It may have mismatched grain or a couple of knots that don't hurt the tone or playability, but dosen't look good stained.

[Grandturk]

Oh yeah, welcome to page 11.

Spinal Tap reference anyone?

[Grandturk]

I would really love to hear from Bionic if the wood on the necks or bodies of the production guitars is sub-standard compared to the wood on the CS guitars. Where does one go to find cheap Poplar or Ashe wood, to cut corners? Doesn't make any sense to me.

Look, its not like they call up the supplier and say, "Hey, Joey - give me a couple pallets of the good stuff and a couple of pallets of absolute shit with knots and mineral stains so I can trick dumbasses."

But they do have choice wood and less-choice wood. I wouldn't think that any wood used in these guitars is considered "sub-standard." Its just not going to be the same quality as the best stuff. Obviously the most expensive would be large light peices that can be used for 1-piece bodies, then smaller pieces they can use for 2-piece bodies. Then there's degrees of mass - the heavier stuff gets pushed down the line for use elsewhere.

Like I said, these are not crap guitars, and they're not "sub-standard." They're just not made with the same care, attention and cost as Custom Shop models. And I wouldn't expect them to be. Christ I can't even figure out how they pay the custom shop guys a decent wage based on the cost of the Custom Shop guitars.

[AndyK]

I would really love to hear from Bionic if the wood on the necks or bodies of the production guitars is sub-standard compared to the wood on the CS guitars. Where does one go to find cheap Poplar or Ashe wood, to cut corners? Doesn't make any sense to me.

I can see if the bodies on the production guitars are made with 3 pieces instead of 2, or mass produced to lower cost. But cheaper wood?

Mike?

[Rich#6]

I think to be fair we need to compare these guitars to the 2005 pointies and the 2002 MIJ ones.
I think in 2005 you could get a one humbucker, ebony board, oiled neck, and real OFR on a black or red guitar for MAP of $1600 made by the CS guys just like the Jackson Selects. I know the one I have ( vtrem, RGF, ebony board, oiled neck and one hum was originally purchased for $1445)
all high quality, no paint flaws and the qtrsawn neck grain looks top notch
2002 you could get a MIJ charvel high end was MAP around $1040 for the Model A that had ebony board, qtrsawn oiled neck, quilt top, and Takauchi JT580-I have owned 3 model A's, an A+ and a Traditional(rosewood board and I had to strip and oil the neck myself).
Before I make a comparison I need to say that I love my So-Cal. Great tone and the neck shape is near perfect.
Now for the where they cut corners/ fall short (comparing it to both the Pointies and MIJ):
No fretboard options(the ebony boards were the best on the MIJ, over my pointy), The qtrsawn wood on mine doesn't even look like it is. The neck needs more sanding(about the same as the MIJ). The neck doesn't even feel like it has any oil on it at all-much worse then even the MIJ). The back of the body on the USA prodcution you can see a lack of sanding showing through the paint-no issues on the other 2. This are issues I have only seen on starter guitars. I can't say anything about fretwork since I bought all of mine used. If these were MIJ they probably would have less flaws and would be a little bit more price wise then the Jackson DK2M. I am sure that the CNC machines are the same quality in both places. you can just charge more if it's made in the USA and sell more to the USA guitar snobs( no offense).
Most of these issues can be easily fixed. A few minutes more on the sanding and oiling the neck. The back of the body should be easy too. The neck wood however really bugs me.
Oh!
Not quality issues but I know most people hate the knob. I think it looks faded against the black pickguard and it would look better if it wasn't flat on top.
the pickguard looks ok but I think these guitars don't look good with the multiply ones.

[beachjammer]

Not to mention the fact that custom shop guitars probably have a high mark up to begin with. I'd say most of us would drop a brick if we knew how much it actually cost to build our guitars vs what we pay for them. Point being that FMIC/Charvel might have lowered their profit margin per guitar and opted to sell more guitars at less profit instead of fewer guitars at more profit. I think this concept combined with the above mentioned things would get the price down to where it's at IMO.

[Grandturk]

So if we want to get back on-topic, we have to figure out what corners were cut:

If the retail on a Custom Shop Charvel is $2600 and the retail on a production Charvel is 1100, then the company has to "cut corners" in order to reduce cost to them. In that regard, I would say the "corners cut" on the production Charvels are thus:

- Build on a production line vs. small batch/individual orders (higher volume increases economy of scale - the Henry Ford innovation)
- Sub-effect of production line - limit options (again, the Henry Ford "Any color you want as long as its black)

- Reduce component cost (lower tier wood selection, cheaper hardware)

- Reduce production time (less time spent on setup, QA - although based on what I've heard about some Custom Shop experiences...)

- Have lower wage employees run the production line

- Limit add-ons (gig bag vs. case)

All of this combined would let Charvel produce a guitar that costs less than a Custom Shop. And I believe these ARE killer guitars.

[Flatpicker]

What they "are" was what we were originally trying to figure out.

Actually, we were trying to figure out what corners were cut on the production Charvels.
This topic has gone left, right, and sideways since the OP. EVT derailed this thread and we never got it back on track.

[shreddermon]

It's all good - no ill intent perceived. Just thought you might be confusing me with someone else with the "now" reference. ...Just my poor interpretation, though.

[Grandturk]

That certainly may be. But, from the tone of your post, it sounds like you may be confusing me with someone else who might've previously accused you of being el' Capitan? :think:

Nah - I was just insinuating that we were all in on beating the dead horse, and certainly from my point of view: enjoying the continuation of said beatings.

No harm meant.

[shreddermon]

Now who's Captain Obvious?

That certainly may be. But, from the tone of your post, it sounds like you may be confusing me with someone else who might've previously accused you of being el' Capitan? :think:

[Carbuff]

just to play devil's advocate

here are a USA tele and SD2
and a USA Strat and a SD1

SIDE BY SIDE...

they arent the same...

Hey, how come you dont have to ask before handling the Charvels?

[AndyK]

..If a person wants a new Charvel not made by the Custom Shop then IMHO they don't want a Charvel. They want something that looks like it, has the decal, etc. , but is inexpensive enough to pry wallets open. Voila: So-Cal.
In all honesty not all can afford 2300 and not all want to pay that. (That's why there is a used market) I understand the affordability problem, but unfortunately that's what a Charvel costs.......

Actually, from what I remember, in the mid 80's, the guitars with Jackson on the headstock were the "custom" guitars, and the Charvels were more readily available ("production" custom?). I guess the necks were all more hand-made, and the guitars were put together by a smaller group, rather than a larger (Fender) group.

..and I think if they hung a no Fender guys sign on the entrance to the paint booth then I think the color choices would shrink to one: bare wood. It just wouldn't make any sense to task a seperate paint crew to run Charvel only. Not enough units involved and money savings is a big deal on these to hit price point. I love your enthusiasm for the line though.

Ha! good point. Although the videos on the Charvel website show a small paint area that seems seperate from the Fender line.

Of those choices I think "Whatever" is probably most accurate for So-Cals. Again, I didn't say they weren't good guitars. What they "are" was what we were originally trying to figure out. And also, I'm not taking a big issue with your post. I'm having a little fun with it, but I do seriously believe only the Charvel CS is "Charvel".

I agree that the So Cal isn't a custom shop product. But I think these new guitars are WAY more Charvel than a "Model" series from the late 80's was!

[Grandturk]

:dead:

Geez, just let it go.

Now who's Captain Obvious?

[shreddermon]

:dead:

Geez, just let it go.