What corners were cut on the production models

[goodwood]

The bridge is crap. The pots are crap. The fretwork seems to be random - some are ok and some are horrible. The fit and finish overall is mediocre. The knob is dorky. The setups are mediocre.

I agree with that except the pot part...I don't know that it is crappy or not.
As for the bridge...when you put it side by side with an '80s OFR it looks, feels, just IS way different. I'd pay $500 Canadian for one after holding and playing 6 of them. No more.

I pretty much agree with 85 San Dimas' posts as well re the Charvel name and such.

[85 San Dimas]

the reason the custom shop stuff is SO much more, is more than just one thing

they use different grade of woods and the Custom stuff is all hand built, no CnC machines
they use table and Pin Routers and do it all by hand... the labor to do that just costs sooo much more.
If you compare it to other like priced guitars,
1100 dollars street price, its a much better guitar..
and they cant be anything other than a charvel, as its a differnt body shape than a fender strat (albeit a small difference)
So why isnt this a Charvel... to me thats silly
its just a new model thats similar to the guitar that they made years ago..

yep, I agree 100%. it's more than one thing. cheaper labor, cheaper wood, cheaper everything. that would pretty much be the definition of "cost cutter" versus what I am referring to in this thread as "real" Charvels.

Again I stress. I do not have a problem with the guitar. Only the marketing of it under the Charvel brand name. I think that is a mistake IMHO for the brand. Time will tell. Your post bears out what I'm saying. And Jet66, I'm following your thread though I haven't posted. I think it's great you bought the guitar, and that grandturk loves his.
Just make a producer earn your money. TTM is doing the same thing as the So-Cal over in Palm Springs (Palm Desert) and while I'm no particular fan I will say you can walk in and get a comparable guitar for half list of the So-Cal. Cut-out and painted elsewhere but assembled and set-up in their shop. I've been in the shop within the last 3 months.

Of course it doesn't say "Charvel", "FMIC", or whatever but it plays out just as good for a lot less. Theirs cost them about the same amount to produce (it has to for what they sell them for), so the parts have to be of similar quality and the labor similar in time. it all boils down to what that decal is worth. Not trying to hurt FMIC with this, but its obvious what te So-Cal is and is not. I'd like a little more transparency about what FMIC is selling as a Charvel (and it has to be pretty close to what TTM is doing for GC and Sam Ash to sell So-Cals at that price.

Anyway, I'm done. Hope everyone gets what they like!

[Jacksonite]

the reason the custom shop stuff is SO much more, is more than just one thing

they use different grade of woods and the Custom stuff is all hand built, no CnC machines
they use table and Pin Routers and do it all by hand... the labor to do that just costs sooo much more.
If you compare it to other like priced guitars,
1100 dollars street price, its a much better guitar..
and they cant be anything other than a charvel, as its a differnt body shape than a fender strat (albeit a small difference)
So why isnt this a Charvel... to me thats silly
its just a new model thats similar to the guitar that they made years ago..

[jet66]

It does seem priced on the low side vs. an American series Fender, no doubt. Maybe it's just a way to kickstart more interest? Maybe the Fender brand is just big enough to command that price? I couldn't really say. At this particular time, this is what I could afford. However, even knowing the SoCal and loving it at this point, I'd still look at a custom in the future. There are a few I have seen in the $2000-$2500 range that, had I the funds, would have been bought instead of the SoCal. I even took pause to think I might hold out for an Adrian Smith sig, but it just wasn't reasonable for me right now.

Every time NAMM had come around for the past few years, I would look and see if Fender was bringing back the American Floyd Rose Strat. This was practically a long-awaited answer to a prayer for me, so I'm glad that for whatever reason they are doing it, they are doing it.

[Rich#6]

I think its a simple case of "because they can".

+1. how else can they buy up the competition.

[rjohnstone]

You're trying to compare Fenders to Charvels.
Lets face it, Fender has more name recognition than Charvel does.
The Fender name warrants its own pricing schema.
So trying to compare to product lines purely on specs and price points is not really a fair comparison at all.

[RobRR]

I think its a simple case of "because they can". They CAN list price an American Standard at $1700 and people will still buy it. Just like Gibson does. Its MORE than obvious that they are WAY overpriced, so in reality the new Charvels are just right... its the strats that are inflated beyond belief. Seriously, how much money do you think it costs Fender to make basically the same guitar they have been for 60+ years? Not much.

[85 San Dimas]

If both you and Bionic are correct then maybe a road worn Mexi Strat should be about 500 bucks because it sure can't cost the same to build it.........yet it lists virtually the same.

Look, I'm not arguing against the guitar as being a good instrument or worth the price. I'm saying that the price point of this guitar prohibits it from being what is being described UNLESS this guitar is the only FMIC guitar accurately priced. a plain white USA Strat lists higher......and they're CNC'd.

[rjohnstone]

The "So-Cals" are mass produced by guitar building standards.
Call it a cookie cutter guitar, not so much a cost cutter.
It's called volume sales.
Once you get the CNC machine cranking out bodies and necks all to the same specs, it's pretty easy to crank out a few dozen for far less money than a one off CS piece.

[85 San Dimas]

Althoguh I want that thrilled with my SoCal, its a GOOD guitar.

Price wise, I do think the prices are a bit high... MAP that is. $799 would be more that reasonable for these... but the current price is equal to that of its USA made Fender counterpart, so its understandable.

Well, according to Bionic the bodies and necks are made in the good ol USA which would make 799 too low (even I will agree with that since GC and Sam Ash still have to do a markup)............so I'll ask this then...........besides the body and neck other components are very cheap. Pots, Pickups, etc. So if a So-Cal can list at 999 why are the others 2200-3000? Hard to spend a grand on pickups and a Floyd.

There is money somewhere in this.... either the So-Cals are too cheap or the others are too high. You can' save a grand off of the MSRP by getting the Floyd from Korea, only buying 3 colors of paint, and limiting the routing ption to two humbuckers.

BTW. I think that So-Cal is great as a basis to modify into whatever you want. it makes a great kit guitar.

[85 San Dimas]

Mostly because Heineken tastes like shit. But I digress.

Hey, keep scooping up the $5K custom shops. More power to you. They aren't that much better than the production stuff.


... edit: Sorry - that's deliberately trolling. Here's what I see as the value of a Custom Shop guitar (from any brand) - you get what you pay for - whatever options, finish and gear you want - that's what custom shop means to me. You get the security of knowing that a small group of luthiers took their time to build it and rubbed it with a diaper every couple of minutes. What Custom Shop doesn't mean to me is a superior playing or sounding guitar.

I don't buy the 5K custom shops just to be clear. I really like the 1K-2K (current price whic is almost all of them) Jackson models from the 80's. They're great guitars that I can by at the same or lesser price than new models that aren't nearly as good (ex $1200 bolt on Jackson from 1986 vs. Gibson LP Studio for 1199 or a So-Cal for 999. Different guitars but which would a person rather have except as a beater?

I love the idea of the CS building the best and building what I want a custom to be and I want that preserved. I agree the Cs process doesn't make it a better guitar and that's part of my point. If the So-Cal is authentic (by FMIC) then why would anyone ever buy the 3K? How would FMIC justify the higher price of the non "So-Cals" if the So-Cal isn't a cost-cutter?

[Carbuff]

No, they were made in Japan and imported by Grover's backers who were located in Fort Worth; the neck plates get around this beacuse they don't say "Made In Fort Worth", they just say "Fort Worth". I remember them having "made in Japan" stickers on the back of the headstock that were easily (and quickly) removed.

But by that point if you were around you knew (and it was well publicized) that Grover Jackson needed a new facility to keep up with demand for both the bolt-on (Charvel) and neck-through (Jackson) models - and to keep up with Kramer. The company was called "Charvel/Jackson" at that time, but Grover still needed a cash influx and cut the deal with the first owner (someone help me out but I want to say it was IMC, who also imported Hondo II guitars from Korea for a while). The company name changed to "Jackson/Charvel", the USA bolt-on guitars became "Jacksons" and the "Charvel" name was used for the MIJ Model series, which came out in 1986. Grover Jackson used the cash influx to expand operations to help meet demand. I'm not sure when Grover cashed out; I don't think the import Jacksons and the toothpaste logo Charvels happened until after he was gone.

Regardless, no one in 1986 confused the Model Charvels with a 1984/84 USA pointy-head Charvel; we all new that a "USA Charvel" now had "Jackson" on the headstock because we all knew they were the same company. The model series was pretty pricey for an import in 1986; the Model 6s were in the $600 range new (with a case) back then; that was close to the same price point that Fender used for their first American Standards (which came out in late 1986).

Yeah, what RJ said. It was sarcasm. Sorry to make you have to go and post all that for nothin.

[John C]

You missed the sarcasm in Carbuff's response to Axewielder's post.
We all know the Model series were not made in FT. Worth.

Well that's what I get for trying to multi-task between work, the SEC tournament, and posting.

My apologies for restating the obvious.

[CharvelRocker]

That purple one has my name on it... now where was I about these being flawless guitars that I should one in each color of?

[rjohnstone]

No, they were made in Japan and imported by Grover's backers who were located in Fort Worth; the neck plates get around this beacuse they don't say "Made In Fort Worth", they just say "Fort Worth". I remember them having "made in Japan" stickers on the back of the headstock that were easily (and quickly) removed.

You missed the sarcasm in Carbuff's response to Axewielder's post.
We all know the Model series were not made in FT. Worth.

Axewielder was complaining about the SD plate on the new Charvels.
Show me one Charvel, current model or past, that was actually made at the San Dimas address noted on their neck plates.
They don't exist. Unless Grover had some super secret shop and the San Dimas Post Office we didn't know about.

It's called marketing folks.