What corners were cut on the production models

[John C]

Yeah, they were made in Fort Worth as per the neckplate and they had The jt-6 trem or a single locking kahler with a locking nut (I never understood that) and basswood bodies. I love the model series guitars but they were not perfect either. They were probably just as expensive too, relatively speaking.

No, they were made in Japan and imported by Grover's backers who were located in Fort Worth; the neck plates get around this beacuse they don't say "Made In Fort Worth", they just say "Fort Worth". I remember them having "made in Japan" stickers on the back of the headstock that were easily (and quickly) removed.

But by that point if you were around you knew (and it was well publicized) that Grover Jackson needed a new facility to keep up with demand for both the bolt-on (Charvel) and neck-through (Jackson) models - and to keep up with Kramer. The company was called "Charvel/Jackson" at that time, but Grover still needed a cash influx and cut the deal with the first owner (someone help me out but I want to say it was IMC, who also imported Hondo II guitars from Korea for a while). The company name changed to "Jackson/Charvel", the USA bolt-on guitars became "Jacksons" and the "Charvel" name was used for the MIJ Model series, which came out in 1986. Grover Jackson used the cash influx to expand operations to help meet demand. I'm not sure when Grover cashed out; I don't think the import Jacksons and the toothpaste logo Charvels happened until after he was gone.

Regardless, no one in 1986 confused the Model Charvels with a 1984/84 USA pointy-head Charvel; we all new that a "USA Charvel" now had "Jackson" on the headstock because we all knew they were the same company. The model series was pretty pricey for an import in 1986; the Model 6s were in the $600 range new (with a case) back then; that was close to the same price point that Fender used for their first American Standards (which came out in late 1986).

[Grandturk]

Its either white or really washed out Robins Egg Blue - which would also be cool.

Very conflicted - do I go for the White Sand Dimas (please please not SoCal) or the full-on Adrien Smith Jackson???

They mention a twist - guesses as to what the twist is??? I say Rosewood boards. I hope its not like 2 Tele models and 1 strat model - that would suck.

Gents... I have said on many occasions that these Guitars are made in the USA. As you know, the components, such as Hardware etc... are aftermarket... For example, the Floyd is made in Korea...

The body's and Necks are made and crafted in the USA... ALL IN CORONA CA on the Charvel Production Line. I have never steered you guys wrong and I wouldn't mislead you... Now go check out the teaser vid on Charvel.com!!

-Mike

Hey Bionic - thanks for clearing the air. Now make with some more spy pics and stop with the teasing - or at least put some more boobies in the teaser trailer.

[RobRR]

Heres the snapshot... I sure hope the white is a SoCal!

[rjohnstone]

Gents... I have said on many occasions that these Guitars are made in the USA. As you know, the components, such as Hardware etc... are aftermarket... For example, the Floyd is made in Korea...

The body's and Necks are made and crafted in the USA... ALL IN CORONA CA on the Charvel Production Line. I have never steered you guys wrong and I wouldn't mislead you... Now go check out the teaser vid on Charvel.com!!

-Mike

WHITE... I SAW FUCKING WHITE!!!
I saw White, Tangerine and some Blue-ish Purple color.

[RobRR]

Althoguh I want that thrilled with my SoCal, its a GOOD guitar. The neck is thick for my taste, and with my nerve damage, can get uncomfortable to play for an extended time.

My two main gripes with the guitar itself were the Grover tuners... they feel like theyre made out of plastic... and I was disapointed in the fretwork, bad crows, unpolished, but thats easy stuff for me, though for someone not experienced in fretwork, would be a problem.

Overall though, they are nice guitars... good hardware. Im not sure why everyones bitching about the Korean Floyd... Ive beat the hell out of it and its held a tune as well as my OFR and Schaller guitars. Yeah, the fine tuners dont move as smooth, but is that really a big deal? Any my SoCal has a CTS solidshaft pot too.

Price wise, I do think the prices are a bit high... MAP that is. $799 would be more that reasonable for these... but the current price is equal to that of its USA made Fender counterpart, so its understandable.

[Bionic]

I wouldn't conclude anything at this point, they could very well be completely made in USA which would be fantastic. It's just hard to know without someone explicitly saying the words.

It's just a shame that there is so much ambiguity around this sort of thing in general - it's not limited to guitars at all. Companies do get nailed for this but there's no way the FTC can keep up.

This is a pretty short read, it's not hard to see where companies can find some wiggle room - there are no absolutes here, lots of room for interpretation:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus03.shtm

I had this issue with a Pork Pie drum throne I bought. They make a big deal of their "Made by an American" slogan. It's on the seats, it's in their literature, it's on the box, etc.



Guess what? I unpacked my drum throne and was greeted with a fucking made in China label. The only thing made by an American is the seat itself. All of the metal work is made in China. I called the company and complained about how they mislead me - they felt what they are doing is legitimate and does not violate the FTC guidelines.

That is TOTAL bullshit.

Gents... I have said on many occasions that these Guitars are made in the USA. As you know, the components, such as Hardware etc... are aftermarket... For example, the Floyd is made in Korea...

The body's and Necks are made and crafted in the USA... ALL IN CORONA CA on the Charvel Production Line. I have never steered you guys wrong and I wouldn't mislead you... Now go check out the teaser vid on Charvel.com!!

-Mike

[hippietim]

If these things are not Made in USA - then why the limited colors and specs - I thought that was the whole thing about keeping the price down on a USA guitar?

So they cut the bodies and the necks in Baja, then ship them to Corona for finishing? That's dirty pool.

I wouldn't conclude anything at this point, they could very well be completely made in USA which would be fantastic. It's just hard to know without someone explicitly saying the words.

It's just a shame that there is so much ambiguity around this sort of thing in general - it's not limited to guitars at all. Companies do get nailed for this but there's no way the FTC can keep up.

This is a pretty short read, it's not hard to see where companies can find some wiggle room - there are no absolutes here, lots of room for interpretation:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus03.shtm

I had this issue with a Pork Pie drum throne I bought. They make a big deal of their "Made by an American" slogan. It's on the seats, it's in their literature, it's on the box, etc.



Guess what? I unpacked my drum throne and was greeted with a fucking made in China label. The only thing made by an American is the seat itself. All of the metal work is made in China. I called the company and complained about how they mislead me - they felt what they are doing is legitimate and does not violate the FTC guidelines.

That is TOTAL bullshit.

[Grandturk]

If these things are not Made in USA - then why the limited colors and specs - I thought that was the whole thing about keeping the price down on a USA guitar?

So they cut the bodies and the necks in Baja, then ship them to Corona for finishing? That's dirty pool.

[hippietim]

When I asked for clarification on where this guitar was made and not assembled, I was not concerned about the ethnicity of the builder. My point was if these were being cut, shaped and painted in Mexico and then bolted together in the US, I don't think that qualifies an Made in the USA and the price should reflect accordingly to where it's built. Bionic cleared that up. So no issue.

He didn't clear that up. He left it ambiguous. Nobody from Charvel has stated that other than the Floyd, they are 100% USA made including fret work, painting, setup, wiring, etc. Lots of companies take advantage of the laws surrounding labeling goods Made In USA. Fender has been called out on this in the past.

There are lots of games companies play with "Made in USA". There are lots of things that can be done around factoring cost of components and services relative to the whole since the cost of materials and services to produce certain aspects can vary greatly depending on who does the work or where it is done. They particular attention to "substantial transformation" and make sure that happes in the US.

[metalhobo]

I chose to un-cut some corners. I've since installed ... a real CTS pot.

So what's the deal with the pots? My CT SoCal has a true CTS pot and it's great. Are they running out of them or something?

[khabibissell]

You can't really get much of a guitar for under $1K these days unfortunately (remember when you could get a new solid color SL1 or 2 for that? Doesn't seem like it was all that long ago), and I think these Production guitars are a pretty good guitar for the money. I don't own one (I'm on an Ibanez kick these days), but I've noodled with a few of them in the store and they seem pretty solid. Hell, even the lower end Prestige Ibenhads are hovering near a grand (or more in some cases).

Buying a true "USA" Charvel (like the SD reissues) for example doesn't guarantee you anything either. I've owned two of them... one was outstanding (foolishly sold), and the other one is crap, though it looked cool and "old school" when I got it. It sounds thin, it needed a fret leveling, the headstock cover is lifting and cracking, one of the locking nut screw holes was drilled into the truss rod cavity (so it is basically half a hole) redering it useless. I have to wind each string on the bass side to the bottom of the tuner to keep pressure on the nut or it will move... I've tried filling the hole too. Last but definitely not least, the Floyd post holes were drilled too far forward on the body, so when the trem is installed, the bar retainer on the bottom buts up against the body in the cavity. After trying to get it taken care of under warranty (I had the guitar about six months at that point), I said fukk it, pulled out my dremel and routed it myself. I now have a $1700 dollar guitar that is worth probably $50. Great investment huh?

[AndyK]

My .02 - The necks are certainly to die for, the pickups are first class. Sustain is great on my SD-1, the paint is perfect, and I got it at a great used price. I can also play it without fear of wearing out a vintage collector San Dimas.

I chose to un-cut some corners. I've since installed a German Floyd, a metal knob, and a real CTS pot. Now, it feels BETTER than my original '86 pointy Charvel did (which buzzed, and had all kinds of "custom shop" shims to correct flaws in the neck angle and nut cut out).

I love the guitar, and I consider it a modern Charvel, made in the USA, and a guitar to hold onto for a long time.

Rant off!

[Grandturk]

Why buy Milwaukees Best when Heineken is the same price? To all the rest of you. I'm glad you love them and play them. I hope you enjoy them I really do. I think they're fine guitars. I just think they shouldn't say Charvel on them.

Mostly because Heineken tastes like shit. But I digress.

Hey, keep scooping up the $5K custom shops. More power to you. They aren't that much better than the production stuff.


... edit: Sorry - that's deliberately trolling. Here's what I see as the value of a Custom Shop guitar (from any brand) - you get what you pay for - whatever options, finish and gear you want - that's what custom shop means to me. You get the security of knowing that a small group of luthiers took their time to build it and rubbed it with a diaper every couple of minutes. What Custom Shop doesn't mean to me is a superior playing or sounding guitar.

[jet66]

I just bought a SoCal, and I love it. Being a big Strat fan, I'd be just as happy if it said 'Fender' on it. I love it and bought it for exactly what it is: An affordable hot-rodded Floyded Strat in a catchy color. Being that I know it won't be a true 'collector's item,' I'll mod it without thinking twice, something I don't think I'd want to do with a real San Dimas.

My son lucked upon an all-original '83 Jackson bass for $500 when I took him Christmas shopping, and the caveat that came with me buying it for him was 'you don't change anything on it but the strings, and if you ever don't want it, need to sell it for money, or whatever, I get first choice to buy from you.' Some day the right SD Charvel for me will come along and I will snatch it up. When it does, I plan on keeping it as original as possible, due to their 'historic significance.'

You do have to wonder what will happpen 10 or so years down the road, though. There was a time when anything Fender post Leo was 'pure crap and not worth a dime,' and now even their worst CBS years have crept up in value. The 70's-80's MIJ Fenders were reviled as well, and look what they sell for now. I've got a '99 American Standard that I paid $750 (w/case) for, new on clearance, when they were getting a major overhaul for the next year. I see them on ebay from time to time, sans case, selling for what I paid new or even more. IMO it's ridiculous, and it doesn't make them any more valuable to the more discriminating connoisseur, but you just never know what the market will do in the future.

[85 San Dimas]

I don't buy your argument at all. Is a Fender American Strat at $1000 any less a "Fender" than a Custom Shop Strat at $5000, or $12000 or more?

Is a $1000 Gibson Flying V any less a "Gibson" than a $6000 Korina hoop-di-doo Flying V?

In my eyes, I don't think so - they're just at a different price point.

Grandturk, I can't for the life of me agree that a Charvel should be anything FMIC puts a Charvel sticker on. No thanks. I guess I missed the passing out of the Kool-Aid.

On your Fender/Gibson point: No, I look at the fact that the 12K Malmsteen is no MORE of a Fender than the 1K.
If Fender doesn't want to give us their "best" then why buy any of it? If their "best" is CS why settle for anything less? Same for Charvel.
Because if the CS is their best then only the best is a real Fender or Charvel............. and anything less is just a "lesser copy" of their best work..........innit?

Well, have at it man. Buy them all.....meanwhile I'll be out there scooping up the real thing with that money. I won't pay 999 (or even close) for that when I can buy an 85-86 Student Soloist for 1K or less, an 85 or 86 Charvel Bolt-on (non graphic) for 1K or so maybe a little more. Hell, I'd be crazy to buy a new So-Cal. 3 months or a year from now when you can't unload it for 5 bills I'll be sitting there with an 85 SD. it'll be dinged a little but it'll be real. Hell even an early Ontario Jackson is more authentic.

Why buy Milwaukees Best when Heineken is the same price? To all the rest of you. I'm glad you love them and play them. I hope you enjoy them I really do. I think they're fine guitars. I just think they shouldn't say Charvel on them.