What corners were cut on the production models

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

Well, just for grins, here's the result of my labor. I ended up just using a flat fine-tooth file on the upper edge to take the curve out. Didn't touch anything below 1/8" deep in the pocket, just the top edge.

Before:




After:



The gap is not small but not terrible, and the neck is definitely very tight in the pocket (maybe 1/16 - 1/32 with the bolts "loose") so I'm happy.

[85 San Dimas]

What idiot thought that up?

I mean, how the hell are you supposed to spot the dented-up used guitars when they're scattered amongst all those dented up new guitars?

You've been in the same stores I have.............no doubt.:ROTF:

You are dead-on.

I asked the sales guy one time..."Now I want to see the good ones you have in the back......not the ones out here that have been destroyed"
He just stared at me like I had said something In Mandarin? According to him they didn't have any, and it was "see ya".

[skintaster]

I have a love/hate relationship with guitar center. I often buy effects and accessories from them, but try to shop elsewhere for larger purchases. Most of the guitars and amps they have in the showroom seem to be completely thrashed by the time I check them out. I bought a Peavey Valveking from them last year, and it was missing a knob and had several tears in the its tolex covering. The salesguy I was talking to said that it had been put out on the floor earlier that day! I only bought it because I got a large discount, and was planning on giving it to my nephew as his first tube amp.

When I went to check out the Egnater Rebel 20, the first one I tried was screwed. Something was blown, and I had to get someone to scramble up another from the back. I've actually begun to regard Guitar Center as a place to try out gear before I buy it from somewhere else, and judging from their banged up stuff, I'm not the only one!

I generally prefer to shop at the mom and pop stores anyway, but a few of the local ones are pricy, and suffer from a "If you don't play SRV style blues rock you suck" syndrome.

On the other hand, Guitar Center's manager was the only guy that made any effort to help me and my band after our rehearsal studio was broken into. Drew at the Houston shop took our gear descriptions and called us when someone tried to sell some shadily acquired guitars at his store. It wasn't our stuff, but he was super cool for the effort. None of the other shops seemed to care at all.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

Sorry to bring the thread back on topic.

Don't know if I'd consider this another corner that was cut... I guess I would. The bridges on these are an "out of the box" Floyd with no shims, which measures approximately 15" radius (I know Floyd Rose says 10" radius, but this is the nut... the bridge is nowhere close to 10" radius).

I put a German Floyd Rose on my black SD1 and shimmed it to about a 19" radius with some aluminum tape and it's a definite improvement.

[DHardmanJr]

The bridges on these are an "out of the box" Floyd with no shims, which measures approximately 15" radius (I know Floyd Rose says 10" radius, but this is the nut... the bridge is nowhere close to 10" radius).

Actually the ones that come on the production models don't have any shims, nor the little plate that goes under the center four saddles ... so it's not 10". I'm not sure exactly, but it's either 15" or 16" radius. Others on this forum would know exactly.

[Grandturk]

Sorry to bring the thread back on topic.

Don't know if I'd consider this another corner that was cut... I guess I would. The bridges on these are an "out of the box" Floyd with no shims, which measures approximately 15" radius (I know Floyd Rose says 10" radius, but this is the nut... the bridge is nowhere close to 10" radius).

I put a German Floyd Rose on my black SD1 and shimmed it to about a 19" radius with some aluminum tape and it's a definite improvement.

I wouldn't say that's a corner that's been cut. I would say its the way the Floyd is designed. Out of the box. Standard.

[beachjammer]

Well, just for grins, here's the result of my labor. I ended up just using a flat fine-tooth file on the upper edge to take the curve out. Didn't touch anything below 1/8" deep in the pocket, just the top edge.

Before:




After:



The gap is not small but not terrible, and the neck is definitely very tight in the pocket (maybe 1/16 - 1/32 with the bolts "loose") so I'm happy.

Looks to me like you did some quality work my friend! Looks good!

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

Actually the ones that come on the production models don't have any shims, nor the little plate that goes under the center four saddles ...

Exactly! That "little plate" is a shim. What I meant by "Floyd with no shims" was that the Floyd taken out of the box, and the default shim is removed (and none are added) which makes about a 15" radius.

so it's not 10". I'm not sure exactly, but it's either 15" or 16" radius. Others on this forum would know exactly.

But, I also measured a brand-new OFR straight from the box, with the default shim in place, and it is nowhere near 10" radius (looks like 14" to me.) The NUT is a 10" radius, I think this is where the "Floyd Rose bridge is a 10" radius" thing comes from. It's in their literature as a 10" radius but the bridge itself is definitely NOT a 10" radius.

I wouldn't say that's a corner that's been cut. I would say its the way the Floyd is designed. Out of the box. Standard.

It's arguably cutting a corner to not shim it properly to fit the radius of the neck of the guitar it's being put on, which it isn't. Let's call it "un-optimized."

[Newc]

That still makes no sense. You're saying a brand new in-the-box OFR comes with a saddle shim, but the ones that come on ready-made guitars is not shimmed, nor is the shim included in any of the guitar's packaging, yet the trem as it comes on the Charvel does not need to be shimmed, and that's "cutting corners".

The reason that a buy-it-yourself OFR comes with the shim is so you can mount it on various makes and models that may require the shim - specifically, those with a rounder radius like a Fender Strat, Les Paul, or the like.

The Charvels have a flatter radius, and therefore do not require the saddles to be shimmed to match the radius of the fretboard.

[Grandturk]

The Charvels have a flatter radius, and therefore do not require the saddles to be shimmed to match the radius of the fretboard.

That's right - 16" is pretty flat in comparison to Fender (9.5") and Gibson (10" or 12" I forget). The Floyd comes with a shim to be useful on other makes of guitars. Not sure if Charvel removes the shim or if the Korean does not come with the shim.

I thought the Floyd bridge radius was 15" without the shim out of the box anyway?

Also - I eyeball the radius on my vintage trems and my Kahler - "eyeball close" is usually good enough for me.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

That still makes no sense.

Actually, it does make sense.

1. An OFR "out of the box" with shim is 14" radius. The shim is under the 2nd - 4th strings' saddles, making the radius steeper/more curved.

2. An OFR without any shims installed is 15" radius. Maybe 16", my radius gauge isn't that good. No matter, though, neither is flat enough.

3. The tremolo as installed on the SD1 is an OFR with no shims (15"/16" radius, whatever).

4. I want there to be shims, yes. But under the 1st, 2nd, 5th, and 6th strings' saddles, to further flatten the bridge, as it should be because...

5. A 15 or even 16" bridge radius is not optimal for a 12-16" compound radius neck. 18" - 19" would be better.

They don't shim the bridge to match the radius during the factory set-up. I would not necessarily expect that on a $1000 Charvel Production guitar, but would on a Charvel Custom Shop guitar, and that was kind of the point of this thread, to compare the two, what "corners were cut" vs. the Custom Shop.

[Grandturk]

4. I want there to be shims, yes. But under the 1st, 2nd, 5th, and 6th strings' saddles, to further flatten the bridge, as it should be because...

5. A 15 or even 16" bridge radius is not optimal for a 12-16" compound radius neck. 18" - 19" would be better.

They don't shim the bridge to match the radius during the factory set-up. I would not necessarily expect that on a $1000 Charvel Production guitar, but would on a Charvel Custom Shop guitar, and that was kind of the point of this thread, to compare the two, what "corners were cut" vs. the Custom Shop.

So, basically, people have been playing Floyds for like 30 years, and NOW this is an issue?

I don't believe the Custom Shop shims as you suggest, nor would it be "optimal" for everyone's playing comfort.

[Newc]

They don't. Neither of my 2 Custom Warriors came with shims under the Floyds, and as I understand it, the default shim covers 3 saddles. You're wanting 2 shims that cover 2 saddles each. Floyd Rose does not, to my understanding, even have those shims themselves, and, again, to my knowledge, has never even offered them.

Again, that's not a "cut corner", it's simply an individual preference.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

So, basically, people have been playing Floyds for like 30 years, and NOW this is an issue?

I don't believe the Custom Shop shims as you suggest, nor would it be "optimal" for everyone's playing comfort.

People have been shimming Floyds for years, too. Apparently the Custom Shop doesn't, though. I would think for that kind of $$ they would, but I suppose different people like different setups.

They don't. Neither of my 2 Custom Warriors came with shims under the Floyds, and as I understand it, the default shim covers 3 saddles.

No, the default shim covers 4 saddles. 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th strings' saddles are on top of this shim.

You're wanting 2 shims that cover 2 saddles each. Floyd Rose does not, to my understanding, even have those shims themselves, and, again, to my knowledge, has never even offered them.

I don't care if they cover 2 saddles each (would be slightly more difficult since the outer saddles must be raised more than the adjacent saddle to keep the radius even) or one saddle each, and I definitely do not care if they come from Floyd Rose, or if they ever made them, or if they sell them now.

It's a shim. A flat piece of metal with a hole in it. You can buy them (from Allparts) or you can make them yourself, or you can use copper or aluminum tape, whatever. This isn't difficult to do at all, it certainly does not require Floyd Rose's involvement.

Again, that's not a "cut corner", it's simply an individual preference.

If the Charvel Custom Shop doesn't do this then in the context of the thread, it's not a cut corner of the Production Series Charvels.

So there, I just said it's not a cut corner. Are you guys happy now?

[Grandturk]

So there, I just said it's not a cut corner. Are you guys happy now?

You're also implying that you need the shims for the Floyd to play "correctly" which I still don't agree with.