What corners were cut on the production models

[Grandturk]

If these things are not Made in USA - then why the limited colors and specs - I thought that was the whole thing about keeping the price down on a USA guitar?

So they cut the bodies and the necks in Baja, then ship them to Corona for finishing? That's dirty pool.

[hippietim]

If these things are not Made in USA - then why the limited colors and specs - I thought that was the whole thing about keeping the price down on a USA guitar?

So they cut the bodies and the necks in Baja, then ship them to Corona for finishing? That's dirty pool.

I wouldn't conclude anything at this point, they could very well be completely made in USA which would be fantastic. It's just hard to know without someone explicitly saying the words.

It's just a shame that there is so much ambiguity around this sort of thing in general - it's not limited to guitars at all. Companies do get nailed for this but there's no way the FTC can keep up.

This is a pretty short read, it's not hard to see where companies can find some wiggle room - there are no absolutes here, lots of room for interpretation:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus03.shtm

I had this issue with a Pork Pie drum throne I bought. They make a big deal of their "Made by an American" slogan. It's on the seats, it's in their literature, it's on the box, etc.



Guess what? I unpacked my drum throne and was greeted with a fucking made in China label. The only thing made by an American is the seat itself. All of the metal work is made in China. I called the company and complained about how they mislead me - they felt what they are doing is legitimate and does not violate the FTC guidelines.

That is TOTAL bullshit.

[Bionic]

I wouldn't conclude anything at this point, they could very well be completely made in USA which would be fantastic. It's just hard to know without someone explicitly saying the words.

It's just a shame that there is so much ambiguity around this sort of thing in general - it's not limited to guitars at all. Companies do get nailed for this but there's no way the FTC can keep up.

This is a pretty short read, it's not hard to see where companies can find some wiggle room - there are no absolutes here, lots of room for interpretation:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus03.shtm

I had this issue with a Pork Pie drum throne I bought. They make a big deal of their "Made by an American" slogan. It's on the seats, it's in their literature, it's on the box, etc.



Guess what? I unpacked my drum throne and was greeted with a fucking made in China label. The only thing made by an American is the seat itself. All of the metal work is made in China. I called the company and complained about how they mislead me - they felt what they are doing is legitimate and does not violate the FTC guidelines.

That is TOTAL bullshit.

Gents... I have said on many occasions that these Guitars are made in the USA. As you know, the components, such as Hardware etc... are aftermarket... For example, the Floyd is made in Korea...

The body's and Necks are made and crafted in the USA... ALL IN CORONA CA on the Charvel Production Line. I have never steered you guys wrong and I wouldn't mislead you... Now go check out the teaser vid on Charvel.com!!

-Mike

[RobRR]

Althoguh I want that thrilled with my SoCal, its a GOOD guitar. The neck is thick for my taste, and with my nerve damage, can get uncomfortable to play for an extended time.

My two main gripes with the guitar itself were the Grover tuners... they feel like theyre made out of plastic... and I was disapointed in the fretwork, bad crows, unpolished, but thats easy stuff for me, though for someone not experienced in fretwork, would be a problem.

Overall though, they are nice guitars... good hardware. Im not sure why everyones bitching about the Korean Floyd... Ive beat the hell out of it and its held a tune as well as my OFR and Schaller guitars. Yeah, the fine tuners dont move as smooth, but is that really a big deal? Any my SoCal has a CTS solidshaft pot too.

Price wise, I do think the prices are a bit high... MAP that is. $799 would be more that reasonable for these... but the current price is equal to that of its USA made Fender counterpart, so its understandable.

[rjohnstone]

Gents... I have said on many occasions that these Guitars are made in the USA. As you know, the components, such as Hardware etc... are aftermarket... For example, the Floyd is made in Korea...

The body's and Necks are made and crafted in the USA... ALL IN CORONA CA on the Charvel Production Line. I have never steered you guys wrong and I wouldn't mislead you... Now go check out the teaser vid on Charvel.com!!

-Mike

WHITE... I SAW FUCKING WHITE!!!
I saw White, Tangerine and some Blue-ish Purple color.

[RobRR]

Heres the snapshot... I sure hope the white is a SoCal!

[Grandturk]

Its either white or really washed out Robins Egg Blue - which would also be cool.

Very conflicted - do I go for the White Sand Dimas (please please not SoCal) or the full-on Adrien Smith Jackson???

They mention a twist - guesses as to what the twist is??? I say Rosewood boards. I hope its not like 2 Tele models and 1 strat model - that would suck.

Gents... I have said on many occasions that these Guitars are made in the USA. As you know, the components, such as Hardware etc... are aftermarket... For example, the Floyd is made in Korea...

The body's and Necks are made and crafted in the USA... ALL IN CORONA CA on the Charvel Production Line. I have never steered you guys wrong and I wouldn't mislead you... Now go check out the teaser vid on Charvel.com!!

-Mike

Hey Bionic - thanks for clearing the air. Now make with some more spy pics and stop with the teasing - or at least put some more boobies in the teaser trailer.

[John C]

Yeah, they were made in Fort Worth as per the neckplate and they had The jt-6 trem or a single locking kahler with a locking nut (I never understood that) and basswood bodies. I love the model series guitars but they were not perfect either. They were probably just as expensive too, relatively speaking.

No, they were made in Japan and imported by Grover's backers who were located in Fort Worth; the neck plates get around this beacuse they don't say "Made In Fort Worth", they just say "Fort Worth". I remember them having "made in Japan" stickers on the back of the headstock that were easily (and quickly) removed.

But by that point if you were around you knew (and it was well publicized) that Grover Jackson needed a new facility to keep up with demand for both the bolt-on (Charvel) and neck-through (Jackson) models - and to keep up with Kramer. The company was called "Charvel/Jackson" at that time, but Grover still needed a cash influx and cut the deal with the first owner (someone help me out but I want to say it was IMC, who also imported Hondo II guitars from Korea for a while). The company name changed to "Jackson/Charvel", the USA bolt-on guitars became "Jacksons" and the "Charvel" name was used for the MIJ Model series, which came out in 1986. Grover Jackson used the cash influx to expand operations to help meet demand. I'm not sure when Grover cashed out; I don't think the import Jacksons and the toothpaste logo Charvels happened until after he was gone.

Regardless, no one in 1986 confused the Model Charvels with a 1984/84 USA pointy-head Charvel; we all new that a "USA Charvel" now had "Jackson" on the headstock because we all knew they were the same company. The model series was pretty pricey for an import in 1986; the Model 6s were in the $600 range new (with a case) back then; that was close to the same price point that Fender used for their first American Standards (which came out in late 1986).

[rjohnstone]

No, they were made in Japan and imported by Grover's backers who were located in Fort Worth; the neck plates get around this beacuse they don't say "Made In Fort Worth", they just say "Fort Worth". I remember them having "made in Japan" stickers on the back of the headstock that were easily (and quickly) removed.

You missed the sarcasm in Carbuff's response to Axewielder's post.
We all know the Model series were not made in FT. Worth.

Axewielder was complaining about the SD plate on the new Charvels.
Show me one Charvel, current model or past, that was actually made at the San Dimas address noted on their neck plates.
They don't exist. Unless Grover had some super secret shop and the San Dimas Post Office we didn't know about.

It's called marketing folks.

[CharvelRocker]

That purple one has my name on it... now where was I about these being flawless guitars that I should one in each color of?

[John C]

You missed the sarcasm in Carbuff's response to Axewielder's post.
We all know the Model series were not made in FT. Worth.

Well that's what I get for trying to multi-task between work, the SEC tournament, and posting.

My apologies for restating the obvious.

[Carbuff]

No, they were made in Japan and imported by Grover's backers who were located in Fort Worth; the neck plates get around this beacuse they don't say "Made In Fort Worth", they just say "Fort Worth". I remember them having "made in Japan" stickers on the back of the headstock that were easily (and quickly) removed.

But by that point if you were around you knew (and it was well publicized) that Grover Jackson needed a new facility to keep up with demand for both the bolt-on (Charvel) and neck-through (Jackson) models - and to keep up with Kramer. The company was called "Charvel/Jackson" at that time, but Grover still needed a cash influx and cut the deal with the first owner (someone help me out but I want to say it was IMC, who also imported Hondo II guitars from Korea for a while). The company name changed to "Jackson/Charvel", the USA bolt-on guitars became "Jacksons" and the "Charvel" name was used for the MIJ Model series, which came out in 1986. Grover Jackson used the cash influx to expand operations to help meet demand. I'm not sure when Grover cashed out; I don't think the import Jacksons and the toothpaste logo Charvels happened until after he was gone.

Regardless, no one in 1986 confused the Model Charvels with a 1984/84 USA pointy-head Charvel; we all new that a "USA Charvel" now had "Jackson" on the headstock because we all knew they were the same company. The model series was pretty pricey for an import in 1986; the Model 6s were in the $600 range new (with a case) back then; that was close to the same price point that Fender used for their first American Standards (which came out in late 1986).

Yeah, what RJ said. It was sarcasm. Sorry to make you have to go and post all that for nothin.

[85 San Dimas]

Mostly because Heineken tastes like shit. But I digress.

Hey, keep scooping up the $5K custom shops. More power to you. They aren't that much better than the production stuff.


... edit: Sorry - that's deliberately trolling. Here's what I see as the value of a Custom Shop guitar (from any brand) - you get what you pay for - whatever options, finish and gear you want - that's what custom shop means to me. You get the security of knowing that a small group of luthiers took their time to build it and rubbed it with a diaper every couple of minutes. What Custom Shop doesn't mean to me is a superior playing or sounding guitar.

I don't buy the 5K custom shops just to be clear. I really like the 1K-2K (current price whic is almost all of them) Jackson models from the 80's. They're great guitars that I can by at the same or lesser price than new models that aren't nearly as good (ex $1200 bolt on Jackson from 1986 vs. Gibson LP Studio for 1199 or a So-Cal for 999. Different guitars but which would a person rather have except as a beater?

I love the idea of the CS building the best and building what I want a custom to be and I want that preserved. I agree the Cs process doesn't make it a better guitar and that's part of my point. If the So-Cal is authentic (by FMIC) then why would anyone ever buy the 3K? How would FMIC justify the higher price of the non "So-Cals" if the So-Cal isn't a cost-cutter?

[85 San Dimas]

Althoguh I want that thrilled with my SoCal, its a GOOD guitar.

Price wise, I do think the prices are a bit high... MAP that is. $799 would be more that reasonable for these... but the current price is equal to that of its USA made Fender counterpart, so its understandable.

Well, according to Bionic the bodies and necks are made in the good ol USA which would make 799 too low (even I will agree with that since GC and Sam Ash still have to do a markup)............so I'll ask this then...........besides the body and neck other components are very cheap. Pots, Pickups, etc. So if a So-Cal can list at 999 why are the others 2200-3000? Hard to spend a grand on pickups and a Floyd.

There is money somewhere in this.... either the So-Cals are too cheap or the others are too high. You can' save a grand off of the MSRP by getting the Floyd from Korea, only buying 3 colors of paint, and limiting the routing ption to two humbuckers.

BTW. I think that So-Cal is great as a basis to modify into whatever you want. it makes a great kit guitar.

[rjohnstone]

The "So-Cals" are mass produced by guitar building standards.
Call it a cookie cutter guitar, not so much a cost cutter.
It's called volume sales.
Once you get the CNC machine cranking out bodies and necks all to the same specs, it's pretty easy to crank out a few dozen for far less money than a one off CS piece.