What new models would you like from Jackson ?

[veniculum]

The Jackson USA guys wait for a certain amount of orders before building a "batch" of guitars; at least this is the way the guy at my local dealer told me it worked. Made to order.

But see...that's just my point. If I were a young kid just starting out on guitar...and I was walking through GC or Sam Ash, I'd think Jackson only makes cheap V and Strat style guitars. It's nothing like 25 years ago..when in the mid-late 80s (I was in that 15-17 year-old age range at that time), I'd walk into Sam Ash, and the Jacksons were the guitars I couldn't afford. It made me want to work for that brand...I respected it more...To me, there was nothing worse than what Kramer was doing...they'd have 1 or 2 top shelf guitars, and then 99 percent of the rest was cheap (and I mean CHEAP) Japanese shit. And to anyone who remembers...Kramer was sure able to make some hot steamy pieces of shit (along with their higher end stuff) Those things looked, felt, and sounded Horrible...I know, because I had one.

I guess it just bothers me that Jackson/Charvel, being the guitars to own when I was growing up, have now relegated themselves to the bargain shelf at every major music store. Granted..the cheap guitars today are built much better than they were in the mid-80s. With all the computers, and machinery, automation, etc, they can build Chinese/Korean/Indonesian guitars that actually sound good. They're still not top shelf...but not bad for a kid starting out. Unfortunately, the kid today might buy a JS Jackson...or more likely, an LTD or Ibanez (insert any other budget model/brand)...and when he's grown out of that (which he inevitably will if he really gets into playing), Jackson won't even be on his list of 'maybes'. And forget about Charvel. In NJ, there's only one shop I know of that even sells them....in the entire state! - and that's according to Charvel's website as well.

Perhaps the market is different these days. I get it. The flashy colors, pointy headstocks, etc etc isn't the hip thing. GC and Sam Ash...as well as all other big music stores carry tons and TONS of Strats, Tellys, Les Pauls, PRS...and in the metal arena, the LTDs (once again...very few actual ESPs..drives me nuts), Shecters, Ibanez...but no Jackson...at least no higher quality Jacksons...I'd even settle for Japanese Jacksons...they're great..they could be made and sent to these stores..and they would sell.

Anyway...it just makes me sad. Jackson/Charvel is just one of my absolute favorite brands (not just of guitars...but of anything). I always loved their stuff..and after the 80s heyday, they kinda went away, and I kinda got out of playing electric during that time. It's great to see that if they had to be bought out it would be by a company like Fender. But I just wish Fender had a different marketing plan for these guitars. I'd love to see a whole other generation of guitarists playing and admiring this brand.

I'll stop now

[pro-fusion]

The market is different these days because of Internet retailers. Sam Ash and GC have shifted to a business model that relies almost entirely on volume, which means selling tons of cheapo guitars. In the last couple years at GC (we don't have Sam Ash here), I've noticed even a reduced number of "mainstream" high-end guitars like Gibson, PRS, and USA Fender at GC.

People with the money to buy high-end guitars are more likely to shop around online, and online dealers can sell lower-volume items more profitably, since they have less overhead than GC.

[veniculum]

The market is different these days because of Internet retailers. Sam Ash and GC have shifted to a business model that relies almost entirely on volume, which means selling tons of cheapo guitars. In the last couple years at GC (we don't have Sam Ash here), I've noticed even a reduced number of "mainstream" high-end guitars like Gibson, PRS, and USA Fender at GC.

People with the money to buy high-end guitars are more likely to shop around online, and online dealers can sell lower-volume items more profitably, since they have less overhead than GC.

This may be the case....but it doesn't make it right. The big chains here in the Tri-State Area have tons of high end Gibbies/Fenders/PRSs...matter of fact, the Guitar Center in East Brunswick, NJ has a $42K 55 Strat (it's either 55 or 57...forgot)...as well as 3 other 20K+ Strats, and at least 2 or 3 20K+ LPs. Their 'behind the counter' walls are absolutely covered in 3K+ Les Paul Customs and ES models...Custom 24 10 tops, and Signature/Reissue Strats. Regardless of their position in the store, if you wish to play one, you can.

I bought a PC-1 online...that's a lot of cash to spend on a guitar you're not even sure you're going to like. Turns out, in my case, I like it. But...and it's a pretty big BUT...since purchasing this guitar, I've seen a 'Mocha' at a store in NYC...and countless pictures of other colors online. Now I'm not saying I regret my purchase...but it's definitely possible that had I seen some other colors in front of me, I may have chosen another. (not that color/finish is the most important part of a guitar purchase...but it still is very important, obviously.)

The problem is not just Jackson/Charvel...the other brands are guilty of littering the chain stores with their bargain models (including Fender, Gibson, and PRS)..but you can actually play the Les Paul Custom. Isn't it realistic to think that if the stores carried some higher end Jackson models that they would sell..and probably fast...faster than online.

About a month ago, I was in the same GC in E.Brunswick, NJ and some woman on line in front of me at the sales counter (I was waiting for my new American Strat to get cleaned up and ready to go at the time and just overheard her)...she was British or something (not that it matters)...but she asked the guy behind the counter..she was there to buy her husband a USA Jackson Soloist for his b-day...the sales guy looked at her like she had three fucking heads. He said.."well..we certainly don't carry these in the store...but we can probably (probably?!?) order one from our warehouse." He proceeded to check his computer and said...we only have one color...(don't remember what it was, but it wasn't what she wanted).

I have to ask myself...how many times does that happen at these stores? 20 years ago, it was almost rare to walk into these stores and not see at least a few top shelf Jacksons, ESPs, Ibanez RG/JEM...even high end BC Rich. Now GC can't even order you what you want? This is just bad business...and it's damaging the brand's name.

At the end of the day...I'm just one guy (out of who knows how many) who has reached a point in my life that I can afford to purchase a (relatively) high end guitar every now and again. I certainly don't like the fact that the only place i can get a PC-1 (insert any USA-made Jackson here) is at musiciansfriend.com. That kinda blows. No disrespect to those online stores. They can offer good deals from time to time..but I wanna see/play the guitar before I buy it. Call me crazy.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

This may be the case....but it doesn't make it right.

Move. :dunno:

[pro-fusion]

This may be the case....but it doesn't make it right. The big chains here in the Tri-State Area have tons of high end Gibbies/Fenders/PRSs...matter of fact, the Guitar Center in East Brunswick, NJ has a $42K 55 Strat (it's either 55 or 57...forgot)...as well as 3 other 20K+ Strats, and at least 2 or 3 20K+ LPs. Their 'behind the counter' walls are absolutely covered in 3K+ Les Paul Customs and ES models...Custom 24 10 tops, and Signature/Reissue Strats. Regardless of their position in the store, if you wish to play one, you can.

Put yourself in the store owner's position. Whether we like it or not, the market for Gibson, Fender and PRS is much wider than for USA Jacksons. Everyone from blues guys to metal heads plays those guitars, whereas Jackson is a much more specialized thing. Charvel is an even more specialized niche than Jackson. It makes total sense for a store to have some expensive Gibsons on the wall behind the counter. They will certainly sell eventually. But how long, if ever, will it take for them to sell a PC1? They can't afford to have non-performing, expensive items in stock, especially in this economic climate.

GC seems to have mostly abandoned Jackson, even the imports. It used to be that all three of the local GCs would have a token black SL1 or SL2H on the wall, in addition to a couple of DK2s and a bunch of cheapo JS models. Now, you're lucky to see more than two or three Jacksons at all in the store. It could be industry politics, but it's also down to what sells for GC and what doesn't. In 1985, the general guitar-buying public was all hot over custom Jacksons. In 2010, not so much.

[veniculum]

Put yourself in the store owner's position. Whether we like it or not, the market for Gibson, Fender and PRS is much wider than for USA Jacksons. Everyone from blues guys to metal heads plays those guitars, whereas Jackson is a much more specialized thing. Charvel is an even more specialized niche than Jackson. It makes total sense for a store to have some expensive Gibsons on the wall behind the counter. They will certainly sell eventually. But how long, if ever, will it take for them to sell a PC1? They can't afford to have non-performing, expensive items in stock, especially in this economic climate.

GC seems to have mostly abandoned Jackson, even the imports. It used to be that all three of the local GCs would have a token black SL1 or SL2H on the wall, in addition to a couple of DK2s and a bunch of cheapo JS models. Now, you're lucky to see more than two or three Jacksons at all in the store. It could be industry politics, but it's also down to what sells for GC and what doesn't. In 1985, the general guitar-buying public was all hot over custom Jacksons. In 2010, not so much.

Think about that though...the reason people aren't buying Jacksons and they are buying Strats and LPs isn't because they don't want them...it's because the stores don't carry them. Open any guitar magazine these days...the whole shred thing is bigger than it's ever been. The most popular guitarists in those magazines are the metal guys...and sure...some of them play the more classic guitars...but then explain why brands like Shecter (including the higher end Shecters) are so prevalent in GC and Sam Ash. Those are certainly not in the same class as Fender and Gibson...and they move them like crazy. Same with Ibanez...they still have a presence in these stores...granted...they are primarily the cheaper models...but there are always a few Japanese Prestige models. And these sell as well.

So ok...the store owners don't want to put 3000 dollar USA-made Jacksons in the store....maybe that strategy holds some water....but what about the Japanese Jacksons...high quality $1000 range guitars. The only reason why these might not sell is because these stores have abandoned the brand...not because of a lack of interest.

[roodyrocker]

A few years back I talked with the Jackson guys at the NAMM booth. The reason you don't see many USA Jacksons hanging on GC's wall is the numbers GC wants. Jackson is unable to keep the same high quality and at the same time supply a massive quantity to GC. GC doesn't want a few guitars here and there, they put in bigger orders. Jackson elected not to compromise quality and stay with smaller numbers. At least thats what John Walker told me at the time. I'd love to see more Jackson/Charvels in local stores too but I'd rather the quality stay where its at rather than lower their standards and start shipping out junk.
Jackson/Charvel is the one brand that I've bought repeatedly over the internet and not been disappointed! If buying new, deal with our sponsoring dealers and you'll get a good Jackson. I've never run into any problems with them.

[MetalHeadMat]

A few years back I talked with the Jackson guys at the NAMM booth. The reason you don't see many USA Jacksons hanging on GC's wall is the numbers GC wants. Jackson is unable to keep the same high quality and at the same time supply a massive quantity to GC. GC doesn't want a few guitars here and there, they put in bigger orders. Jackson elected not to compromise quality and stay with smaller numbers. At least thats what John Walker told me at the time. I'd love to see more Jackson/Charvels in local stores too but I'd rather the quality stay where its at rather than lower their standards and start shipping out junk.
Jackson/Charvel is the one brand that I've bought repeatedly over the internet and not been disappointed! If buying new, deal with our sponsoring dealers and you'll get a good Jackson. I've never run into any problems with them.

True, but most don't have money for shipping, border fees, etc.

We need more online Canadian guitar stores, eh?

[pro-fusion]

Think about that though...the reason people aren't buying Jacksons and they are buying Strats and LPs isn't because they don't want them...it's because the stores don't carry them. Open any guitar magazine these days...the whole shred thing is bigger than it's ever been. The most popular guitarists in those magazines are the metal guys...and sure...some of them play the more classic guitars...but then explain why brands like Shecter (including the higher end Shecters) are so prevalent in GC and Sam Ash. Those are certainly not in the same class as Fender and Gibson...and they move them like crazy. Same with Ibanez...they still have a presence in these stores...granted...they are primarily the cheaper models...but there are always a few Japanese Prestige models. And these sell as well.

So ok...the store owners don't want to put 3000 dollar USA-made Jacksons in the store....maybe that strategy holds some water....but what about the Japanese Jacksons...high quality $1000 range guitars. The only reason why these might not sell is because these stores have abandoned the brand...not because of a lack of interest.

I think you put too much stock in brick-and-mortar music stores. This isn't 1988. Have you noticed who goes into GC these days? It's 13-year-old kids and their bored parents. Now, maybe Jackson needs to cultivate these "customers of the future" somehow, but that's probably a topic for another thread.

Why is it that every thread beyond a couple pages inevitably turns into "I Could Market Jackson Better Than Those Guys At FMIC"?

If it was obvious, they and everyone else would be doing it. For example, we don't really know that ESP's "endorsement whore" approach really adds more to their bottom line than FMIC's handling Jackson does. Jackson's biggest flaw in attracting the "13-year-old GC Out of Tune Dipshit" market is the fact that their Japanese guitars are kind of bland next to ESP and Schecter. However, I'm sure the suggestion to move Jackson's overseas plants to China and Indonesia, so that they could be more cost-competitive and bling-laden, wouldn't be met very kindly around here.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

I think you put too much stock in brick-and-mortar music stores. This isn't 1988. Have you noticed who goes into GC these days? It's 13-year-old kids and their bored parents. Now, maybe Jackson needs to cultivate these "customers of the future" somehow, but that's probably a topic for another thread.

Why is it that every thread beyond a couple pages inevitably turns into "I Could Market Jackson Better Than Those Guys At FMIC"?

If it was obvious, they and everyone else would be doing it. For example, we don't really know that ESP's "endorsement whore" approach really adds more to their bottom line than FMIC's handling Jackson does. Jackson's biggest flaw in attracting the "13-year-old GC Out of Tune Dipshit" market is the fact that their Japanese guitars are kind of bland next to ESP and Schecter. However, I'm sure the suggestion to move Jackson's overseas plants to China and Indonesia, so that they could be more cost-competitive and bling-laden, wouldn't be met very kindly around here.

Well said.

I have two stores within an hour or so drive of my house that each typically have 12 - 18 USA Charvels and Jacksons IN STOCK, ready to go, and you know what? They STILL have (and SELL!) 10x as many LP's and Strats.

[Grim]

I think you put too much stock in brick-and-mortar music stores. This isn't 1988. Have you noticed who goes into GC these days? It's 13-year-old kids and their bored parents. Now, maybe Jackson needs to cultivate these "customers of the future" somehow, but that's probably a topic for another thread.

Why is it that every thread beyond a couple pages inevitably turns into "I Could Market Jackson Better Than Those Guys At FMIC"?

If it was obvious, they and everyone else would be doing it. For example, we don't really know that ESP's "endorsement whore" approach really adds more to their bottom line than FMIC's handling Jackson does. Jackson's biggest flaw in attracting the "13-year-old GC Out of Tune Dipshit" market is the fact that their Japanese guitars are kind of bland next to ESP and Schecter. However, I'm sure the suggestion to move Jackson's overseas plants to China and Indonesia, so that they could be more cost-competitive and bling-laden, wouldn't be met very kindly around here.

+1, nicely done.


Personally, I quite like the import line of Jacksons. Good quality for the price - DK2M for example.

I don't have a store around here that stocks USA models, but I have a dealer. I can order Jacksons in but never see any in stock.

[Grim]

Seconding the adding the Warrior to the 5 series and then upgrading the fretboards to bound ebony, as well as merging the JS with the X by upgrading the JS models to basswood.

The 5 series would then be only offered in limited finishes. The USA models would have all the graphics.

Or, a lower-cost USA series that steps down to bolt-ons with rosewood fretboards and dot inlays.

Do you understand the cost of bound ebony fretboards?

Binding... is tedious... and costly. To offer Ebony and binding on a five-series import is ridiculous.

Bolt-ons with rosewood fretboards and dot inlays? The Import line has 2/3 of those.

Can we get Ferrari Red allowed on all models along with Tobacco Burst? even that'd make me happy.

I'd be into more Mahogany models as well.

Maybe a rounded strat body shape, HSS configuration and non-recessed floyd?

[Rogueleader]

I think you put too much stock in brick-and-mortar music stores. This isn't 1988. Have you noticed who goes into GC these days? It's 13-year-old kids and their bored parents. Now, maybe Jackson needs to cultivate these "customers of the future" somehow, but that's probably a topic for another thread.

Why is it that every thread beyond a couple pages inevitably turns into "I Could Market Jackson Better Than Those Guys At FMIC"?

If it was obvious, they and everyone else would be doing it. For example, we don't really know that ESP's "endorsement whore" approach really adds more to their bottom line than FMIC's handling Jackson does. Jackson's biggest flaw in attracting the "13-year-old GC Out of Tune Dipshit" market is the fact that their Japanese guitars are kind of bland next to ESP and Schecter. However, I'm sure the suggestion to move Jackson's overseas plants to China and Indonesia, so that they could be more cost-competitive and bling-laden, wouldn't be met very kindly around here.

I don't understand why Jackson can't release an import version of the SL2H. Considering the new import SLATS I think they could definitely do it, the pricing could be about the same I would think, on one hand its an ebony fretboard, which is a price increase, but on the other theres not the cost of carving/radiusing the body.

It would take alot of work to recover though, considering that the primary metal market now (in my estimation) is $500-600 Neck through superstrats and LTD/Schecter have that game on fucking lock.

[veniculum]

I don't understand why Jackson can't release an import version of the SL2H. Considering the new import SLATS I think they could definitely do it, the pricing could be about the same I would think, on one hand its an ebony fretboard, which is a price increase, but on the other theres not the cost of carving/radiusing the body.

It would take alot of work to recover though, considering that the primary metal market now (in my estimation) is $500-600 Neck through superstrats and LTD/Schecter have that game on fucking lock.

Exactly. I don't understand the comment that 13 year olds are the only ones in the music stores...that's just not accurate. Stores are EXTREMELY important in the success of a product. Lets examine this. This month Guitar World did a whole piece on guitar "shredders". Do you know, I only saw one Jackson signature player (Morton)...Ibanez is represented...ESP is represented...Christ's sake..Shecter is represented. Do you know why these brands have players endorsing their guitars...because they sell...(and visa versa)...because the stores carry them, the kids walk in and buy the budget models...and over time, there's brand loyalty..so when that kid is a few years older, he goes back to GC or Sam Ash and buys a new Ibanez/ESP/Shecter...a higher end model. He's not buying a guitar from a brand he knows nothing about. And this is the dilemma that I'm speaking of.

And to think that it's perfectly acceptable that if you want to buy a Jackson (particularly a USA-made...and even Japanes models at this point as well), you have to take a shot in the dark and spend your hard earned money on something you never get to play ahead of time...that's just silly thinking all around. Fuckin-A right I wanna play that thing before I buy it.
Worst...Jackson makes the JS Series and yet they're mysteriously missing from the chain stores. Isn't the point of having budget guitars to make them in numbers, market them, and put them in the stores. Yet...even the JS models don't get any advertising or store representation.

Fine...you guys wanna say there's always somebody criticizing FMIC and talking about how they should conduct business...I'm here to say..you bet I'm criticizing them. It's shitty marketing, and their brand..Jackson/Charvel is selling next to nothing, while the other "metal" guitar brands are making a killing. How ironic that the biggest guitar manufacturer in the world can't market....or perhaps, don't care to market one of their acquired brands. Maybe they don't see a future for Jackson/Charvel...which is evidenced by the lack of marketing, advertising, and in-store availability.

Really....lets think about this...would you buy a car that gets no reviews from the automative press, had no advertising at all, and most importantly, aren't available in the stores to test drive? That just doesn't make sense...and that's what's going on over at FMIC/Jackson Guitars. If anything, my frustration is because I am loyal to the brand...and because I do like being able to post messages in a forum...particularly a forum/thread like this one, which is discussing new models.
If FMIC continues to market (or lack of marketing) the Jackson/Charvel brand this way, I'm afraid we'll only have a forum for vintage Jackson/Charvels.

[loki: god of chaos]

Exactly. I don't understand the comment that 13 year olds are the only ones in the music stores...that's just not accurate. Stores are EXTREMELY important in the success of a product. Lets examine this. This month Guitar World did a whole piece on guitar "shredders". Do you know, I only saw one Jackson signature player (Morton)...Ibanez is represented...ESP is represented...Christ's sake..Shecter is represented. Do you know why these brands have players endorsing their guitars...because they sell...because the stores carry them, the kids walk in and buy the budget models...and over time, there's brand loyalty..so when that kid is a few years older, he goes back to GC or Sam Ash and buys a new Ibanez/ESP/Shecter...a higher end model. He's not buying a guitar from a brand he knows nothing about. And this is the dilemma that I'm speaking of.

And to think that it's perfectly acceptable that if you want to buy a Jackson (particularly a USA-made...and even Japanes models at this point as well), you have to take a shot in the dark and spend your hard earned money on something you never get to play ahead of time.
Worst...Jackson makes the JS Series and yet they're mysteriously missing from the chain stores. Isn't the point of having budget guitars to make them in numbers, market them, and put them in the stores. Yet...even the JS models don't get any advertising or store representation.

Fine...you guys wanna say there's always somebody criticizing FMIC and how they conduct business...I'm here to say..you bet I'm criticizing them. It's shitty marketing, and their brand..Jackson/Charvel is selling next to nothing, while the other "metal" guitar brands are making a killing. How ironic that the biggest guitar manufacturer in the world can't market....or perhaps, don't care to market one of their acquired brands. Maybe they don't see a future for Jackson/Charvel...which is evidenced by the lack of marketing, advertising, and in-store availability.

Really....lets think about this...would you buy a car that gets no reviews from the automative press, had no advertising at all, and most importantly, aren't available in the stores to test drive. That just doesn't make sense...and that's what's going on over at FMIC/Jackson Guitars. If anything, my frustration is because I am loyal to the brand...and because I do like being able to post messages in a forum...particularly a forum/thread like this one, which is discussing new models.
If FMIC continues to market (or lack of marketing) the Jackson/Charvel brand this way, I'm afraid we'll only have a forum for vintage Jackson/Charvels.

agreed 100% precent