New Admin

[~K~]

Re: New Admin

Thanks Bret,

Let me add to this that the JCF will NOT become the FDP. It will not be censored on every little issue that arises. My point of view is simple with everything in life. You can go at someone balls to the walls or you can try and handle it with class. If class doesn't work THEN you pull out the big guns. I'm a firm believer in the saying "you get more bees with honey than you do with vinegar". This doesn't mean this board will kiss corporate ass but it simply means we try and handle everything the most intelligent way possible 1st ...

[Greg Crowe]

Re: New Admin

Originally posted by Sandman0170:
Do you really want to make things public Greg? Do not attack us if you don't want us to retaliate.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh puuullleezzzzzz. I could really go nuts on this one but I won't. I'll just be honest about why I left. I left as an admin ON MY OWN for 2 reasons:

#1 I felt the other current admins had their noses way too far up Fender's corporate ass and that any time I mentioned the word "Fender" they threw a fit, even if it wasn't in a negative way. I had enough of that.

and

#2 I really didn't have the time to devote the proper attention the JCF needed as an admin. The other admins had admirable plans for the JCF, I just didn't have the time. Better let someone else do it.


Now as an independent member, I don't feel like I have to hold back my true thoughts. I really gritted my teeth a lot acting as an admin........ no more.

[sully]

Re: New Admin

thanks bret; as usual, you're a voice of reason, and i'm glad that you're back here as an active member.

however, since we're airing things... greg, the ONLY issue i had with your "hey fender guys" post was that it was nothing but inflammatory. if you TRULY wanted to assist with the training and job knowledge of the jackson staff, you wouldn't have opened up with "you" statements. it's said that in successful interactions, statements that start with "i" go over better than statements that start with "you." if you also wanted to do something constructive with the issue that you posted about, the logical and sensible, not to mention, ADULT thing to do would have been to email brian about the situation. to say that we went and got brian involved and called him to the board was a good sign that all you wanted to do was point fingers and b!tch. brian was THE person you wanted to talk to if that truly was your concern. be honest, it wasn't. all you wanted to do was complain when they've done more than a few good things so far. hell, they even got rid of your biggest thorn; DFW! that, is the reason you didn't get the apology you demanded from me. if i felt i was wrong, or if any of the others did, i would have been the first to apologize publicly.

yes, we had in the past asked you to relax a bit in regards to fender, and for the most part you did. this was asked not out of ass-kissing to anyone, but that admins should be held to a higher standard. if you had things you wanted to vent about, you could have done so in the admin forum, or if you really had anything legitimate to complain about, you had people at fender who were willing to listen. christ, especially now. i know you worked hard at first to build a good relationship with the new owners, and DFW probably spoiled a fair amount of it, including the jcf series. but a lot of those thorns were being removed, yet you refused to see that.

i've said it before, and i'll say it again, i'm by no means a fender fan. however, they've done more improvements to the company in the past nine months than AMIC did in years. you can't ignore that. things aren't going to happen overnight. but all one can look at is action. positive things are happening.

greg, you are more than welcome here, and you're someone i've looked up to. i understand that you feel the way you do, and you have the right to feel that way. however, i'm more than a bit disappointed to see this from you, i thought you were better than that.

sully

[Greg Crowe]

Re: New Admin

Sully, I still feel you owe me an appology. That thread was not anti-Fender in any way. It was only intended to help point out where they were dropping the ball in the customer service area. I was extremely offended by your response. As far as emailing the Fender guys, I haven't been in contact with them and wouldn't have a clue how to. I certainly wouldn't know what their email addresses are.

To back up further inaccurate comments above. YES, this board was founded and a charter was drawn up by all four original admins that specifically stated:

"To be an independent source..... free from corporate influence or control...."

That statement used to be on the front page of www.jacksoncharvelforum.com.

Times change...... so be it.

And to further set the record straight....... I AM NOT anti-Fender. I was most definitely anti-DFW. If Fender yanked DFW out of Charvel/Jackson then my hats off to them. I honestly feel that Fender is doing a lot of things right and a few thing wrong. That translates into more right than wrong.

It's still early in my book. It's not hard to put some neat one-of guitars together for a NAMM show. Time will tell in what happens with prices, USA Selects, availability of Custom models, any further cheapening of import guitars and quality control.

L

[Sandman0170]

Re: New Admin

So much to say, so little point in wasting my time...

Good to see ya around Bret!

[~K~]

Re: New Admin

"#1 I felt the other current admins had their noses way too far up Fender's corporate ass and that any time I mentioned the word "Fender" they threw a fit, even if it wasn't in a negative way. I had enough of that."

This is exactly what we have been talking about over the last few months. There's a difference between honey and vinegar .. for instance instead of saying

"The admins and I don't agree on our policy regarding fender and the forum"

You come out with The admins have their noses up fenders corporate ass ...

This has been your stance almost the entire time simply because you were pissed at DFW. Not one admin has ever bad mouthed you in this public setting no matter how much we disagreed with you ... We simply asked that you tone it down a bit.. Yet I read statements like this.. That's not fair and it's not right ..


At every turn instead of taking the high road you write jabs like you did tonight. No one ever said you were 100% wrong but look at a few facts. While I'm getting help with my custom .. your waging war .. that didn't help me.. While we were being offered a JCF party you waged war .. While we were offered NAMM passes ..you were waging war. I'm sorry to say that you never even gave them the chance from day one. Your ultimate issue was DFW and it hurt the membership. My attitude is such that personal agendas should not and cannot harm the now 1400 members of this board. When you come out as an admin and take shots at corporate you hurt the entire forum .. we as admins should be better than that.

The last post you left regarding this issue infact started off in a hostile manner...

"You people at fender really need to learn how to tell the difference" Set a hostile tone irregardless of whether you meant to or not. At every turn you've acted alone in this and not once talked behind the scenes before you posted inflammatory remarks at Fender leading them to believe that was the stance of all 4 admins and not just yourself.

#2 Your resignation....

Yeah well you got us there .. lets look at facts though .. When we asked to start a contest for the members your response was instead of putting the money towards a $200 pos you felt the money was better spent on a bar tab for the admins at NAMM.

This attitude started months ago b4 I was admin where you decided the forum money was better spent on the admins to go to NAMM and not bettering the JCF or giving back to it's members. You pocketed the cash and never showed up at the show. When YOU were questioned about it and issues happened behind the scenes you removed Bret for violating the forum .. fact is .. you IMO were way outta line on where that cash should go, but removed a member for going against the forum...

You as an admin were asked to pitch in a bit more instead of just *****in all the time about Fender and you agreed .. you've never stepped forward to lend a hand even as the members were getting upset over the gallery ...

While this was going on I've set up a contest, run it with Sully,Coded stuff for the UBB,Worked with pat on server issues,set up a storefront, christ you were'nt even around to do the board change over .... It was pointed out to you .. Greg are you in or out .. no one ever tried to force you out .. you said in and promised to help .... never happened...

When this last issue started we were in the process of removing you as admin from the JCF for several different reasons.. some of whats listed above and other issues .. you just beat us too the punch ... yeah I know ..you quit and we can say whatever we want but think about a few facts ... Your status was turned off and a new admin was announced way too fast for it to not be in process ...

Think about the way we operate ... Even when a member asked if you were tossed I made a point to say not at all and give this whole crappy issue some dignity. We never wanted you to leave ... we wanted you to help ...

In conclusion .. when your putting no blood, no sweat or tears into the JCF, when do you become dead weight with all your Fender responses ... To take care of this in an intelligent manner all you had to do was point out the issue to Brian directly instead of a hostile post.

This really sucks ... but hey.. I usually try and take the high road right ....

Later ..................................

[Greg Crowe]

Re: New Admin

Kevin, there is so much BS to your post I won't even beging to start. I can see this is going nowhere. If I exposed all the BS behind the scenes you'd just delete it. I won't waste my time.

[Tekky]

Re: New Admin

First, I'd like to thank Greg for the congratulations.

Regarding selling my soul to the "Fender boys":
I am not anti-Fender, nor am I necessarily pro-Fender. What I am is pro-Jackson/Charvel. I love Jackson and Charvel guitars. If you look at the collection on my site, that fact is painfully evident. I am for anything that will keep Jackson commercially viable while maintaining the quality and style that they are known for.

Down the road there will be issues that I may not agree with. Obviously we're all going to have an opinion one way or another. I personally feel that if I have one of dissent, then I need to express it clearly and express how I would do things differently. When you complain, you're only making half a statement.

[Sandman0170]

Re: New Admin

Geez, you don’t even know the history of the board, there were 3 original admins, Rob, Bret and myself and we removed that statement for the same reason we are standing by today. Email is very easy to get when you’re an admin, do a search on a member and hey look at that, it's all right there! Brian's email is open to the public too, right in his profile.

[shreddermon]

Re: New Admin

Well, how about this. And outsider's view...

Greg, you must feel like the other admins are beating up on you and "spinning" things to support their positions. I'm not an admin, just a plain old forum member who hangs out here. ...Probably more than I should. [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] But from an "outsider's" perspective, everything Jeremy, Kevin, and Sully have said is pretty damn accurate:

- It's painfully obvious that you have had an anti-Fender bias thing going for quite some time now. It's not just what you say, it's how you say it. The tone of your own posts give it away. If it were only one or two, I'd agree there's no intent and let it slide. But this has been a pattern over numerous posts for a very long time now. I'd go even further: it's not just an anti-Fender thing, because it started well before the takeover. It's an anti-Jackson thing in general and, after the new ownership moved in, you've expanded the bad ill to them.

- I'll go even one further than the admins have. Some of your actions have also been suspect in the fair treatment of certain JCF members. I've seen past hints, maybe even more than that, or inappropriate and unfair treatment of people. Slamming them publically and even, IMHO, inappropriately threatening people with banishment. I must admit that - on a positive note - this behavior has mostly throttled back to normal recently. But I'm left wondering if that has more to do with you not being very active around here than any real change of behavior.

In summary, it should be expected that an enthusiasts' forum has admins that are reasonably unbiased, neutral, and fair in the treatment of the very thing we're all here for - Jackson & Charvel guitars. That's not corporate @ss-kissing, and doesn't mean that all posts should be a PR puff piece on behalf of the company. Criticism should be welcome, if it's constructive. However, it does means that it's inappropriate if nearly every one of your posts have a negative slant based with a bad attitude.

Greg, I don't say any of this to start a bashing fest against you, and I hold you no ill will personally. You're a trusted and valued member around here, and I hope that continues. But sometimes we all need to be told things harshly to be shocked into a little self-examination about ourselves. And, quite frankly, you need to do that right now and its approrpiate that you're no longer an admin.

[skidd]

Re: New Admin

Guys,
This is a great place and I have learned alot here. I think the admins and Greg should take this offline. Lock it down or remove it. I don't think it is any of our business.

Scot

[ July 21, 2003, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: skidd ]

[jjw]

Re: New Admin

well done Tekky [img]graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

As for Gregs comments,fair enough.I was pissed off too when fender bought jackson [img]graemlins/evilimages/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

Now i love fender for their own guitars,but i get the feeling the Jackson line might suffer.

Hopefully i am wrong,i guess its the big guys little guys thing.anyway good news was ESP didnt buy jackson out [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

[Guest]

Re: New Admin

I would have to disagree with those statements, I was very concerned as to what would happen, but what they've done in 9 months and the things at NAMM, I think it's all for the better at this point...

Think about this.... Mike Shannon's back in the custom shop now and has been for a few months, so that's definitely a start in the right direction, with that and all the other things at NAMM, I wouldn't worry a bit...

Pat

[EDIT] I almost forgot, CONGRAD'S Todd! [img]graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

[ July 21, 2003, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: Strangletooth ]

[RacerX]

Re: New Admin

I had fun reading this thread! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[CharvelFK]

Re: New Admin

Hey welcome Tekky. I am sure we will see you around alot... and we'll ask many questions... so enjoy! [img]graemlins/band.gif[/img]