Is Fender trying to put Jackson out of business?

[Sephiroth]

We new have Jackson imports that cost as much as USA Fenders and even some USA Gibsons (like SG's and LP studios) with half the features like binding found on $400 - $500 guitars made by others, and USA models cost more than Les Paul Standards.

Approx. ten years ago a DK2 and RR3 were ~$450 guitars; now both are twice that with the only discernable difference is the RR3 went from chrome to black hardware (chrome looks nicer on my eerie-dess-finish RR3 BTW and I think Jackson should have kept chrome for some finishes).

Why are prices constantly escalating like this? They're not even trying to compete against other guitar-makers.

I don't mean to rip on Jackson because they're still my #1 and I have still owned and continue to own more Jacksons than any other guitar, but I just don't understand this inflation, and it royally pisses me off to see people like ESP making a killing off of Jackson-based guitars like the Rhoads and King V (there's nothing a-hole about knocking off the sig model of a dead artist then putting another artist's name on it like EPS does; nah never) while Jackson stands by and does nothing to counter them.

I don't want ot hear this stuff about how too many features on cheaper imports eats away at US sales like I used to hear because as Gibson and probably even ESP found out, if someone doesn't have the money for a $2000+ instrument, then starving the features of cheaper models he can afford won't make him get that money out of nowhere for a USA model. Economics do not work that way at all.

Come on Jackson. You're my favorite and I don't like seeing you on the losing end of guitar sales like this while every little poser on the planet has his hands on an LTD copy of a Jackson (or Gibson lol) with ten times the features found on Jacksons that cost more.

[Deadlock]

I'm with you. I love Jackson guitars and I'll continue to buy them, but they aren't the best bang for your buck. I think the MIJ neckthru Jacksons are fantastic and I'm glad to hear neck bindings are being added to them for 2011. But Jackson needs to bring the prices back down a bit and stop forcing customers to pay for included hard cases. I mean, $699 for a black DK2T (w/ case) on muscianfriend is NUTS. For that price it should be neckthru. LTD's version of the DK2T is an MH-350NT, which is $619 on musiciansfriend with a quilted maple top, mahogany body, neckthru construction and EMG pickups. To fare, the MH350NT doesn't include a case.

[PowerTube]

I agree with you guys, but with a caveat; I would rather see them charge a slightly higher price for good quality than to sell total junk. Back around 2000, I bought a DX10X from Guitar Center for $349.00. My wife and I were struggling financially at the time and it was all I could afford. It was Indian-made and had a chromed single-locking tremolo, with "Duncan-Designed" pickups. Jackson was still owned by Akai at the time and I'm glad those days are gone.

Personally, I wish they had never even touched the "cheap crap" market in any way, but instead stuck with the quality Japanese-made imports and USA models.

I was playing a Dk2 once at Guitar Center and this guy walked over and started talking to me. We chatted for a while and he took the guitar and played something. He said, "Wow, this is pretty nice for a Jackson." That's exactly what I'm talking about because the Jackson name deserves better than the low-end garbage.

[wilkinsi]

I solve this problem by buying used guitars. 4 of the 5 I own were bought from JCF members.

[VitaminG]

wow, has another year passed already?

[Deadlock]

I solve this problem by buying used guitars. 4 of the 5 I own were bought from JCF members.

I'm with you there. I haven't bought a new guitar from any manufacturer in years. But buying used means you have to spend a lot of time hunting for what you want and it can be risky since you often deal with non-returnable items and have to buy online or at shady pawnshops. I like buying used guitars, but if Jackson dropped their prices a little OR offered better features at the current prices, I'd be more inclined to buy new.

[MetalHeadMat]

All I'm saying is Proffesional Series should be the standard guitar, no JS series bs, just the Pro, and the X series, then the USA's should be all custom, like back in the day. Some people may say I'm living in the past, but there's a reason Jackson was more respectable back then.

I solve this problem by buying used guitars. 4 of the 5 I own were bought from JCF members.

I love buying used as well, but sometimes you gotta pop the cherry on a new guitar.

[tomanyjacksons]

+1

[RacerX]

[Newc]

No, Jackson doesn't need to go back to being a Custom Shop for the USA models, because that means they would have to reduce the orders they receive.

The whole reason they went full-on production was because they had enough orders for certain models (Rhoads and Soloist, mainly) to justify that. As well, so many orders were so identical (2-hum Soloist, H-S-S Soloist, Floyded, non-Floyded, ebony+fins+binding etc etc) that it made sense to put those out as standard features with limited finishes (current with what the CS was getting orders for). Outrageous/expensive graphics were left as Custom orders (Saturn, etc) but the "easy stuff" like Lightning Sky or Ghost Flames or Bengal - stuff that can be done with templates and two swipes of an airgun - could be offered as a no-charge feature.

I agree that these other companies are kicking Jackson's ass in the cosmetic features department, but there are a few things you have to remember:
1 - ESPee does not have a USA division, other than their Custom Shop, which I wouldn't be surprised if they're simply farming it out to places like GMW. Since they do not have a USA division for production models, and basically have homefield advantage in Japan, they can afford to splash on some flashy trim.
2 - They are not matching Jackson's WOOD quality. When you make a product, you have to consider the total cost - materials, manpower, etc etc. In my experience, Jackson puts more into wood than hardware or cosmetics. Everyone else puts an even amount into wood AND cosmetics. They might look good, but the instrument will last about as long as the looks do - you get a few dings here and there and there go the looks, right along with the structural integrity.
With Jackson imports, you can beat the shit out of them and still use them. Yeah they look like shit but they still play. THAT'S all that matters. You want pretty frillies, go see a Victoria's Secret store. You want a TOOL to get the job done, get a fucking Jackson.
3 - Binding and inlay materials do not affect the tone. Not one bit. That abalone-slathered Korean Ibenhad you're jerking off to in the catalog will not sound any better than the RR3 you're wiping your ass on. Yeah you'll impress the other fashion victims when you flash that trash on stage, but that's about it.


And Gibson are in a whole 'nother universe with their shit. Stripped-down USAs (Studio, Faded, etc) for under a grand. They can afford it thanks to the pinheads who shell out mega$$$$ worrying about whether their pickups have the exact same number of winds as Seth Lover's originals, or whether the shade of paint they're using now is Pantone-matched with what they used back in '58, or some other trivial screwcounting freak retardation.
Those assclowns are financing Gibson's undercutting tactics. If Jackson had a few thousand pinheads shelling out $14K each for VOS Concordes, then yeah, you'd see an SL2H going for $700 new with case.

Unfortunately, (or rather, fortunately), Jackson doesn't have those kinds of morons in those kinds of numbers.


And yes, you can buy a Les Paul Standard for less than an SL2H or RR1. Do you know why? Because even today people still believe that expensive = better. That's the pricing formula Grover started with and it's still in practice today. You see Jackson on the skids? No. Is that pricing scheme working? Yes. Do dealers still find people stupid enough to pay full MSRP? All the damn time.

The only problem I've got with Jackson's imports is the same problem I've always had with them - they put the wrong necks on the wrong bodies. Every neckswap I've done between models has yielded a better-playing instrument than either one started out as.

[Rich#6]

yes the prices are now stupid crazy. At least Jackson has kept the manufacture in japan. If you look at some of the other companies they have kept their prices the same or raised them and taken their good guitars made in korea and are having them made in indonesia or china. LTDs went from Korea to indenesia to china and their shit at any price. the new premium ibanez's are made in indonesia and cost $900. you can now pay $1000 for a chinese epiphone. I have almost always buy used, I wait for some one else to be a dumb ass and pay full price.

[dg]

Rich just summed everything up really well. The quality Jackson imports are made in Japan, where manufacturing costs are probably closer to the USA than they are to Korea, and the OP is asking that they compete in price with Korean and even Indonesian & Chinese guitars. The only way they can do that is to move production to those places, or to move Pro series production to India or wherever the JS Series is made. It's a never-ending game that Jackson hasn't been playing as hard as their competition. I hope they don't, but they may have to, and I wouldn't be surprised if Fender has been weighing whether people will actually buy Indian Pro Series or spend all their time here screaming about it.

[VitaminG]

yea, but them made in China guitars gots sick inlay work in the bodies. That just spells quailty, yo! And Jackson cain't hang

[Scooter]

+1 to Newc!

[PowerTube]

Personally, I wish they would drop the JS series entirely. Seriously. Make the Jackson name mean something like it once did. I don't mean for every guitar to be a one-off custom like the early Eighties, but there has to be a happy medium in there somewhere.