Is Fender trying to put Jackson out of business?

[Sephiroth]

Your argument that Jackson is suffering in the market by not including enough blingy features to compete with Chinese & Indonesia made guitars at the same price point from ESP, Schecter, et al, reduces the benefits of economy of scale. If they aren't selling enough, they aren't building enough to realise those benefits.

Which comes to the question with how do you sell more when you're selling guitars that lack features found on others costing half as much. Like it or not, more features do sell.

[Sinistas]

Are you fine with production in India, because that's where the JS production has landed...

The JS series are $300 guitars. Some of the LTDs that are made in China (IIRC, the XX1 models) are $700 new. You can get a Japanese Jackson for that much.

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Which comes to the question with how do you sell more when you're selling guitars that lack features found on others costing half as much. Like it or not, more features do sell.

I don't wanna be the guy to play devil's advocate here, but when I bought my JS, the last thing on my mind was whether it had binding on the neck or headstock. IMO, I'd hardly consider binding an important feature. Sure, it enhances the look (matter of opinion...), and while I do like it, it doesn't determine whether I purchase a guitar. I'm sure there are plenty of others who feel the same way.

I've played some LTDs, B.C. Riches, Epiphones, etc. within the same class as the JS, and IMO, the JS rises above them all; the feel, sound, appearance, quiet electronics, and just overall attention to detail. IMO, the additional cosmetic features found on those competitors don't do anything whatsoever to enhance the overall performance of the instrument, and IMO, the binding jobs on those guitars aren't all that great in the first place.

I played pretty much every guitar from every manufacturer in the $400 range, and in the end, my JS Warrior was the best guitar I'd played. It made such an impression that I didn't even need to think about it, I just knew it was the right one. It felt better, looked better, played better, sounded better, and was just overall, better.

I'm not going to say that a JS series guitar doesn't have its faults, because it does, and if it were the perfect guitar, I certainly wouldn't have my eyes set on a USA Select Warrior as my next major purchase within the next few months, but this JS series Warrior is the lone reason as to why I'm totally gassing for one. If I hadn't ever played this Warrior, I wouldn't have had any interest whatsoever in owning a Jackson.

What the Jacksons may lack in visual fireworks, they do more than make up for it with their overall performance. At the end of the day, quality is going to sell over any other feature.

There's a reason Toyotas are the best selling cars in America, and it sure as Hell ain't because they look good or pack the most standard equipment and features. Just sayin'...

[Torment Leaves Scars]

The JS series are $300 guitars. Some of the LTDs that are made in China (IIRC, the XX1 models) are $700 new. You can get a Japanese Jackson for that much.

Indeed, some of those LTDs are, and from some of my experiences with them, they play like they're made in China, too. There are two levels of LTD, I believe. One is a dirt-cheap level, which hovers around $200, and then there is the "upgraded" LTD, which I believe are the ones you're referring to. IMO, those $700 "upgraded" LTDs aren't worth more than $450-$500.

I did get a chance to sit down with a Kelly KE3 (Made in Japan), and it felt pretty damned good, but it also rang the register at around $900-$1000.

IMO, ESP are great guitars, but the LTDs leave much to be desired.

[BRADSTANG]

my 2 cents worth, of all the guitars i've had in my life only one has been a usa made, and i think that is sad. all of the cars i've owned have been fords. i can afford an american car as much as a foreign one. the whole problem with the us is we are not manufacturing anything in the us anymore. we need to bite the bullet and make a little less on our product and keep jobs here and keep my music dollar in the usa. i don't like giving my money to foreign lands and farmed out greedy american companies.

[Torment Leaves Scars]

my 2 cents worth, of all the guitars i've had in my life only one has been a usa made, and i think that is sad. all of the cars i've owned have been fords. i can afford an american car as much as a foreign one. the whole problem with the us is we are not manufacturing anything in the us anymore. we need to bite the bullet and make a little less on our product and keep jobs here and keep my music dollar in the usa. i don't like giving my money to foreign lands and farmed out greedy american companies.

And I wholeheartedly agree with you, but in the end of the day, the American customer wants the best value for his/her money. My last car was a Subaru. Why? Because America didn't (doesn't) build the the type of car I wanted (AWD, turbo, 4 dr). Not to mention, the Japanese factory workers take pride in their work, unlike the American factory workers.

Aside from that, I'm just using Toyota as an example that their cars are not fancy in the least, yet, they continue to sell hand over fist. There's nothing attractive about a Toyota Camry. The reasons people buy them are because they're safe and reliable. Want features, buy a Chevy Malibu. Want reliability? Buy a Toyota Camry. It's crystal clear who's winning that game, and why; a shame, really...

[wilkinsi]

I contacted a guy on the forum by PM regarding his collection of Warriors, and he was kind enough to return a reply along with a video of the manufacturing process of the JS32s from beginning to end. In the video, it was mentioned that the guitars were being manufactured by Harmony Music International or HMI...something like that.

Unfortunately, I deleted the PMs, so I can't recall what his SN was, but I do remember his name was Simon.

Not guilty. I'm curious about this video tho.

[RacerX]

Not guilty. I'm curious about this video tho.

Maybe it's this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImMbdFuHNlI

From the other JS thread: http://www.jcfonline.com/threads/110...55#post1431355

[Sephiroth]

I don't wanna be the guy to play devil's advocate here, but when I bought my JS, the last thing on my mind was whether it had binding on the neck or headstock. IMO, I'd hardly consider binding an important feature. Sure, it enhances the look (matter of opinion...), and while I do like it, it doesn't determine whether I purchase a guitar. I'm sure there are plenty of others who feel the same way.

I've played some LTDs, B.C. Riches, Epiphones, etc. within the same class as the JS, and IMO, the JS rises above them all; the feel, sound, appearance, quiet electronics, and just overall attention to detail. IMO, the additional cosmetic features found on those competitors don't do anything whatsoever to enhance the overall performance of the instrument, and IMO, the binding jobs on those guitars aren't all that great in the first place.

I played pretty much every guitar from every manufacturer in the $400 range, and in the end, my JS Warrior was the best guitar I'd played. It made such an impression that I didn't even need to think about it, I just knew it was the right one. It felt better, looked better, played better, sounded better, and was just overall, better.

I'm not going to say that a JS series guitar doesn't have its faults, because it does, and if it were the perfect guitar, I certainly wouldn't have my eyes set on a USA Select Warrior as my next major purchase within the next few months, but this JS series Warrior is the lone reason as to why I'm totally gassing for one. If I hadn't ever played this Warrior, I wouldn't have had any interest whatsoever in owning a Jackson.

What the Jacksons may lack in visual fireworks, they do more than make up for it with their overall performance. At the end of the day, quality is going to sell over any other feature.

There's a reason Toyotas are the best selling cars in America, and it sure as Hell ain't because they look good or pack the most standard equipment and features. Just sayin'...

For a JS, such things should be the last thing on your mind, but for ones that break a grand in price, more features are definitely needed.

[Sephiroth]

my 2 cents worth, of all the guitars i've had in my life only one has been a usa made, and i think that is sad. all of the cars i've owned have been fords. i can afford an american car as much as a foreign one. the whole problem with the us is we are not manufacturing anything in the us anymore. we need to bite the bullet and make a little less on our product and keep jobs here and keep my music dollar in the usa. i don't like giving my money to foreign lands and farmed out greedy american companies.

America makes very little right. Our cars are crap (there I said it), and everything else we build is crap except Jack Daniels and guitars.

America makes the best guitars in the world. Go anywhere, and people know what a Fender or Gibson is. American-made guitars are very much premium-grade guitars not just in the US but also worldwide. Most foreign music legends can be seen holding a strat or Les Paul. People will argue until they're blue in the face over Euros or Americans making the best metal or Brits versus Americans making the best rock, but in the end, most of them will do so holding an American guitar. Can any European guitar company claim Jimmy Page as an endorsee and go back in time to undo Jimmy playing "Stairway to Heaven" on anything else than an SG double-neck? In spite of their best efforts to claim them after their career peaks, can ESP go back in time and wipe out Metallica and other metal bands playing Jacksons and Gibsons in their peak? Nope.

Jackson knows this, and being on that level is exactly where Jackson wants their USA guitars to firmly sit. Unfortunately it means you will never ever see an American-made Jackson for less than $2000 again.

[Torment Leaves Scars]

For a JS, such things should be the last thing on your mind, but for ones that break a grand in price, more features are definitely needed.

The thing is, not everyone likes binding. My Warmoth neck has no binding. Sure, it was custom-to-order, but it just wouldn't do anything for the appearance of the guitar. Even without binding, the neck looks like an absolute work of art (high-gloss finish, abalone inlays). IMO, binding doesn't necessarily make a guitar more attractive. I've never seen a Strat with binding, yet, I think they're very attractive guitars. :think:

I'm in full agreement with you that at $1000, features need to be present, but IMO, they don't necessarily have to be in the appearance, they could be in the electronics. FWIW, the KE3 Kelly I played had binding, and that was a $1000 guitar. I don't know why people think $1000 Jacksons don't have styling cues as such... :think:

[tomanyjacksons]

I'm not big on styling cues myself I would rather have a well built guitar first. Form should follow function IMO.

[Torment Leaves Scars]

I'm not big on styling cues myself I would rather have a well built guitar first. Form should follow function IMO.

+1. I've played some Schecters that were high on appearance but low on everything else; pretty disappointing, really...

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Maybe it's this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImMbdFuHNlI

From the other JS thread: http://www.jcfonline.com/threads/110...55#post1431355

Yes, this is the video. Thanks for posting it up!

[1b4n3z]

From a northern european perspective the USA Jacksons are quite reasonably priced and if it wasn't for a rather steep value-added tax to consider I'd hoard 'em like crazy (due to USD-EUR advantage). I believe that also the japanese models are giving the main competitor ESP a run for the money as well, quality-wise. What Jackson (or Fender) could do is pay attention to the distribution network. It seems there are not a single music store in Finland with USA Jacksons on the shelf for people to ogle at and if I'm not completely wrong this is the case in most of the Europe too. I only saw a couple at the Music Store in Cologne and they were behind a glass - no touching allowed. People need to buy their high-end Jacksons sight unseen and that's a very delicate process - what with the nearest authorized dealer is probably in another country (I don't even know who and where). ESP has taken over fast and easy, even though their distributor can't tell their asses from elbows either (seems to be a common problem within the industry).