Is Fender trying to put Jackson out of business?

[Sephiroth]

I tried a new RR3 at GC yesterday (didn't go in to buy one and went in for usual supplies like strings and picks). It's a bit nicer with the binding and a case tossed in, but my chrome hardware EErie Dess early 2000's one edges it out for looks (even though I'd love to neck-swap for a neck with binding), and was a whole lot cheaper.

It got me to noticing (while also checking here) that Jacksons short of the USA models have fewer finish options than they used to. I remember when the DK2 came out, it had every finish option you can imagine, and now it has a tiny few. The same for the RR3 and other pro models. Personally I'd like to see more natural and "burst" finishes, even on the pointy guitars. Pinstripes and different-color bezels don't do anything for me, which stopped me from getting an RR24 approx. a year ago and is still stopping me from getting one. It's a shame because I really wanted a white Rhoads with matching head.

From a northern european perspective the USA Jacksons are quite reasonably priced and if it wasn't for a rather steep value-added tax to consider I'd hoard 'em like crazy (due to USD-EUR advantage). I believe that also the japanese models are giving the main competitor ESP a run for the money as well, quality-wise. What Jackson (or Fender) could do is pay attention to the distribution network. It seems there are not a single music store in Finland with USA Jacksons on the shelf for people to ogle at and if I'm not completely wrong this is the case in most of the Europe too. I only saw a couple at the Music Store in Cologne and they were behind a glass - no touching allowed. People need to buy their high-end Jacksons sight unseen and that's a very delicate process - what with the nearest authorized dealer is probably in another country (I don't even know who and where). ESP has taken over fast and easy, even though their distributor can't tell their asses from elbows either (seems to be a common problem within the industry).

Here in Texas there was a local gutar store that actually took money from ESP to stop carrying competing guitars like Jacksons. Luckily a Guitar Center opened up and put that store out of business.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's the problem for you up in Northern Europe. ESP really are a pack of jackasses.

[Sephiroth]

+1. I've played some Schecters that were high on appearance but low on everything else; pretty disappointing, really...

A lot of people don't know this, but Schecter is owned by Hisatake Shibuya, the same guy who founded and owns ESP. So guitars that are high on flash and empty of substance should come as no surprise.

[Torment Leaves Scars]

A lot of people don't know this, but Schecter is owned by Hisatake Shibuya, the same guy who founded and owns ESP. So guitars that are high on flash and empty of substance should come as no surprise.

I've played a few LTDs and haven't been impressed, but it's nearly impossible to find an actual ESP in my neck of the woods. I'd like to sit down with an ESP.

As for the ESP line itself, I'm not real impressed by it. They make some cool guitars, but very few are original designs. I like the "Gus G" model, and I've played an LTD version (absolute shit...), and I played some Explorer-style LTD a while back that was decent, but I just didn't find a connection with it.

I've played a few Schecters, and have never been overly impressed with any of them. I played one and it was okay, but just...okay.

[Sephiroth]

I've played a few LTDs and haven't been impressed, but it's nearly impossible to find an actual ESP in my neck of the woods. I'd like to sit down with an ESP.

As for the ESP line itself, I'm not real impressed by it. They make some cool guitars, but very few are original designs. I like the "Gus G" model, and I've played an LTD version (absolute shit...), and I played some Explorer-style LTD a while back that was decent, but I just didn't find a connection with it.

I've played a few Schecters, and have never been overly impressed with any of them. I played one and it was okay, but just...okay.

The only ESP I played that I liked was the black lawsuit explorer, but Gibson made ones similar to it with better pups IMO.

All I can really say about ESP is their "rep" in the metal scene is HUGELY owed to the EMG active pups.

And I will never ever respect them for copying the sig models of dead artists then having the balls to put the name of other artists over them. Not cool.

[Torment Leaves Scars]

The only ESP I played that I liked was the black lawsuit explorer, but Gibson made ones similar to it with better pups IMO.

All I can really say about ESP is their "rep" in the metal scene is HUGELY owed to the EMG active pups.

And I will never ever respect them for copying the sig models of dead artists then having the balls to put the name of other artists over them. Not cool.

Kinda like what Dean Guitars has turned into...exploiting Dimebag Darrell, and riding off his death.

When Dean Zelinsky owned the company, they were quality guitars. Since he departed, I haven't played a single one that hasn't been anything more than a pile of shit.

ESP must be paying these guys a fortune to endorse their products, because James Hetfield would rarely be seen slinging anything but a Gibson, and Kirk Hammett did his fair share of spending time with Fernandes, Jackson, and Gibson products...maybe an occasional Fender.

[Sephiroth]

Kinda like what Dean Guitars has turned into...exploiting Dimebag Darrell, and riding off his death.

When Dean Zelinsky owned the company, they were quality guitars. Since he departed, I haven't played a single one that hasn't been anything more than a pile of shit.

ESP must be paying these guys a fortune to endorse their products, because James Hetfield would rarely be seen slinging anything but a Gibson, and Kirk Hammett did his fair share of spending time with Fernandes, Jackson, and Gibson products...maybe an occasional Fender.

James Hetfield still plays his Gibson "maltese cross" Les Paul whenever he feels like it in spite of ESP money. When his contract runs out (whenever that is unless he signed a lifetime contract) I won't be surprised if he jumps ship and signs on with Gibson.


I think Kirk gave away all of his Rhoads back in 1993 with that MTV "Load" contest with each trailer having one of his black RR's in it. He still records with like 100 different guitars but he's pretty much just ESP now for live shows.


And in all fiarness to Dimebag, he resurrected that dead company and it's fair game for them to continue to produce his sig model just like Jackson producing Randy's model still (even though Gibson recently challenged it with a Randy Rhoads Les Paul for which Dolores Rhoads had to agree to).

[Torment Leaves Scars]

James Hetfield still plays his Gibson "maltese cross" Les Paul whenever he feels like it in spite of ESP money. When his contract runs out (whenever that is unless he signed a lifetime contract) I won't be surprised if he jumps ship and signs on with Gibson.


I think Kirk gave away all of his Rhoads back in 1993 with that MTV "Load" contest with each trailer having one of his black RR's in it. He still records with like 100 different guitars but he's pretty much just ESP now for live shows.


And in all fiarness to Dimebag, he resurrected that dead company and it's fair game for them to continue to produce his sig model just like Jackson producing Randy's model still (even though Gibson recently challenged it with a Randy Rhoads Les Paul for which Dolores Rhoads had to agree to).

Sure, he did resurrect Dean, but c'mon, the guy's dead. What's their real purpose behind all the "Dimebag" nonsense? It's to the point that it's just a watered down marketing scheme.

Given the amount of money Kirk Hammett has, I'm sure it wouldn't be an issue to replace his "donated" RRs with new ones.

[Devotee]

(whenever that is unless he signed a lifetime contract)

I don't think Hetfield would be that stupid. He's got a contract with ESP and they'll build him whatever he wants but he can still play any guitar he feels like so hey!

[Torment Leaves Scars]

I don't think Hetfield would be that stupid. He's got a contract with ESP and they'll build him whatever he wants but he can still play any guitar he feels like so hey!

Sounds like a win-win. I couldn't live with just owning one brand of guitar. There are so many qualities I like in so many guitars from different manufacturers, it'd be impossible for me to be happy.

[Hellbat]

Kirk still has and plays his 85 black string thru Rhoads live as far as I know.

[lepard]

A few comments:

Price on Newer Japanese Jackson's vs. Older Japanese Jackson's:

Yes, they are significantly higher priced BUT some now have real Duncan pickups and an excellent Korean Original Floyd as opposed to the horrendously bad Duncan Design garbage pickups and that cheapo JT-580LP trem. There's gotta be $200 worth of benefit there.

Import Guitars in General:

I love how people get so wrapped up in the ESP vs. Schecter vs. Dean vs. everybody else on these guitars when in reality it's all pretty stupid because the SAME Korean or Indonesian shops are making ALL the guitars for each and everyone of those manufacturers people are arguing about. Jackson is the exception. What people should be arguing about is WHICH Korean or Indonesian shop is putting out good quality. World Guitars in Korea put out a lot of nice stuff in the 2000's for LTD, Schecter and Dean(Serial numbers that started with "E"). UnSung in Korea("US" serial numbers) was building some excellent guitars for Dean in the late 2000's although most of those have been recently dicontinued in favor of cheaper Chinese guitars. Ibanez's Indonsian shop is starting to get pretty good. China is getting better but is still hit and miss and uses cheap materials that might look good right off the boat but won't stand up to any real use.

What this all boils down to for me is: Why buy new ? You can buy a real USA Custom Jackson("J" serial number) from the 80's for $800-$1250.

There are only 2 new guitars over the past few years that I would consider buying:

1. USA made Charvel San Dimas guitars, a lot of bang for the buck but now they're gone.
2. New Dean 1000-Series USA guitars going for approx. $1100-1300.

[KingVee]

Kirk still has and plays his 85 black string thru Rhoads live as far as I know.

Indeed he does. Check Jackson's official Facebook, they posted pictures of him playing it at the Big 4.

What this all boils down to for me is: Why buy new ?

I'm a really picky person, and I enjoy the commodity (if I can call it that) of buying a guitar only I will have played on beside the factory builders. I also like my guitars scratch, ding and chip-free.

The prices are high, for sure, but that's how life goes and will keep on going...

[SLY]

Regarding this subject and my real concern with Jackson now (linked or not with Fender, I don't know...), it's really on the communication issue. Why can't they update their website regularly, with pictures of the new gear, pictures of stand in Namm and Musikmesse, giving official information on availability, etc... like all their competitors do? It's more than 4 months since Namm Show, and we have no official picture of the Broderick soloist yet on the website with the exception of the headstock (with a flame maple cap when Chris's guitars have quilted maple cap!). All we have are rumours. I would like to buy a Broderick, but it won't be available in store, and you can't even see pictures of it from the official distributor!

The same last year with the slat3-7 where it was almost impossible to know if it has a binding or not.

It's great for this forum, as it's the only way to get good information on Jackson products, but I really think Jackson need to really improve on the subject, specially now as the communication has never been that easy with Internet.

[Larz]

Kirk still has and plays his 85 black string thru Rhoads live as far as I know.

Indeed he does. Check Jackson's official Facebook, they posted pictures of him playing it at the Big 4....

Kirk does still play the Jackson but if you've never seen the recent shows, like the DM tour, he typically only plays it for one particular song...Sad But True.

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Indeed he does. Check Jackson's official Facebook, they posted pictures of him playing it at the Big 4.


I'm a really picky person, and I enjoy the commodity (if I can call it that) of buying a guitar only I will have played on beside the factory builders. I also like my guitars scratch, ding and chip-free.

The prices are high, for sure, but that's how life goes and will keep on going...

I agree with this. I hate the shit out of buying used stuff. I bought a used car, and I felt like the car was used (Maybe because it was?). I'll never buy another used car unless it's like an old classic.

The same thing goes for my guitars. I bought a used guitar, and it was just that, a used guitar. It had the dings, the scratches, etc. I've only purchased one used guitar.

For me, I like to be the sole owner of my shit. I always buy new. The same goes for a home. I refuse to buy an existing home. I want my home built from the ground up. I want to see it being rectified, and "born." I don't want something that someone else has lived in. My wife and I have purchased two homes, and each of them were brand new.