Who's a knock off of who? Or. Who made who?

[Hellbat]

Because Les Paul designed the SG, and clearly the Les Paul, doesn't mean he should be the only one to use them. It's a shape made by a designer, in this case Les Paul.

Actually Les had nothing to do with the design of the SG, even though it was just initially called a "Les Paul" model. It was Gibson's way of making a cheaper model (less wood = less $ cost) that they marketed as a feature of "lightweight". Les initially demanded they take his name off anything to do with it which is where the SG branding came from. (for Solid body Guitar IIRC)

[Sephiroth]

Actually Les had nothing to do with the design of the SG, even though it was just initially called a "Les Paul" model. It was Gibson's way of making a cheaper model (less wood = less $ cost) that they marketed as a feature of "lightweight". Les initially demanded they take his name off anything to do with it which is where the SG branding came from. (for Solid body Guitar IIRC)

I thought "SG" stood for "second generation"

[Newc]

Nope. Solid Guitar (since it had no hollow parts, including chambering/weight relieving).

While Les may not have put his name on it, he and Mary Ford did at least pose with them for a few album covers. Whether they used them on record or not, I can't say. Some songs do sound a bit "SG-ish" to me.

[TKEblue]

I also think you guys are also misconstrueing why schecter is popular right now. Its not because of "bling" like abalone inlays and abalone binding because that's only even on a few of their guitars. Its things like that they have guitars with mohogony bodies, mohogony set necks, grover tuners, official floyd rose trems, ebony fretboard, seymour duncan blackouts, multiply binding, and nice finishes for under 1k. Im a big schecter fan, I own a C-1 and its an incredibly nice guitar for the 450 new I payed for it. Schecter doesn't hold a candle to J/C tho in my opinion. But unbiased young people who walk into GC to buy a new guitar and see that schecter and see a dk2 next to it for not much of a price difference they are probably going to go with the schecter. The pricing is just out of whack imo. Not as bad as gibson tho, if you have 2 les pauls with a 500 difference, its prob just different finishes.

[TKEblue]

And on the sg lp thing. Les designed "the log" and had nothing to do with the design of the les paul. When gibson designed the sg it was originally a double cut les paul but he wouldn't put his name on it. At least that's what I had read.

I've also read that even tho the same guy owns schecter and esp they are both completely different entities.

[holycross1]

I also think you guys are also misconstrueing why schecter is popular right now. Its not because of "bling" like abalone inlays and abalone binding because that's only even on a few of their guitars. Its things like that they have guitars with mohogony bodies, mohogony set necks, grover tuners, official floyd rose trems, ebony fretboard, seymour duncan blackouts, multiply binding, and nice finishes for under 1k. Im a big schecter fan, I own a C-1 and its an incredibly nice guitar for the 450 new I payed for it. Schecter doesn't hold a candle to J/C tho in my opinion. But unbiased young people who walk into GC to buy a new guitar and see that schecter and see a dk2 next to it for not much of a price difference they are probably going to go with the schecter. The pricing is just out of whack imo. Not as bad as gibson tho, if you have 2 les pauls with a 500 difference, its prob just different finishes.

Don't add me to the Schcter bashers. They are my second favorite. Plus they had a history of doing buisness back and forth with Wayne and Grover. The fact that their parent company also owns ESP/LTD has nothing to do with their designs. If you notice ESP/LTD got thier new Whoreizon headstock from the Schecter C series. The two run against each other for market share within the company.
I personaly have a 2005 Schecter Ultra that I love to play a lot more lately. It kills me that they don't make my edition of the guitar anymore. I also have a 5 string neck-thru bass that just delivers in spades.
They sit with my 2 1/2 Fusions (soon to be 3) my Charvel Model 3 and My 62 Original Gibson classical and 72 Kay 000 copy.
If they made a Floyd loaded model of MY Ultra, I would have 2 by Christmas. Simple as that.
My beef is with the guys "actually running" ESP getting glory for counterfits.

[TKEblue]

Im glad im not alone. Lol I was hesitant to post that in fear of being trolled flamed and excommunicated. xD but I would have to say that schecter is my number 2 as well. The make excellent playing and sounding guitars imo.

[holycross1]

Im glad im not alone. Lol I was hesitant to post that in fear of being trolled flamed and excommunicated. xD but I would have to say that schecter is my number 2 as well. The make excellent playing and sounding guitars imo.

I figure the Schecter Company has had some goober guitars. And they have done more bad ass 7 string designs then most seem to notice. There approach is a little more flash then our Jackson bretheren are used to. But The C-1 is a 750XL in another headstock. And my Ultra is the best approach to a Firebird feel that was in production from 02-05. But they never made a Floyd model. The new ones are long scale now and have left the original headstock. I would order a Custom Shop as quick as I would a Jackson if I were loaded. But I am not.
But if I find a nother from my year model. I will be routeing it for a floyd and letting Learn do his paint magic.

[toejam]

In case you're not aware, ESP and Schecter are both owned by the same guy

I do know that. I don't hate them, I just don't like a lot of the abalone crap all over.
I actually used to own a Schecter 007 Elite 7-string (the H/S version), and I owned an LTD EC300-P (Eclipse with P-90s), and thought they were pretty decent.

[ginsambo]

Those kids at the Namm show need to be put down. Eddie Ojeda is King and so was his custom Charvel back in the day.

As for Gibson, they did do pink burst Les Paul's in the early '80's...so they have the right!

ESP et al always seem to me like Ibanez did in the late '70's. Maybe I'm behind the times but I still can't see that they have 100% carved out their niche. All the other companies seem to me like small order custom shop companies, good guitars, don't get me wrong, but with few grounded, original ideas. Hell what does it matter Fender owns jackson/charvel now anyway.

[MetalHeadMat]

If you notice ESP/LTD got thier new Whoreizon headstock from the Schecter C series.

Their new Horizon headstock is a mixture of the Schecter C Series 3x3 and the Eclipse 3x3. Note, one of my favourite headstocks ever is the Schecter 3x3

[toejam]

Their new Horizon headstock is a mixture of the Schecter C Series 3x3 and the Eclipse 3x3. Note, one of my favourite headstocks ever is the Schecter 3x3

I really like the Schecter 3+3, also, but the new 3+3 on the ESP Horizon doesn't look so good.
I loved the original smurf hat/cock headstock thing the Horizons used to have, didn't care much when they changed it to the pointy or reverse pointy, but I still think they were better than the new one.

[horns666]

Smurf hat cock headstock?

count me in!!!

Lester Polsfuss was a bad mofo back in the day. Check out some of Les Paul and Mary Ford TV shows on youtube...wow. In this epi-sode. The cut in two Epi "The Log" is on the table..check it out!>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYlG7...eedwll&list=WL. That dude was a fuggin' genuis...

Not one for detailed, fact finding. Holycross bullet point thread posted above is quite impressive. I think!

The brands I'll always love beside J/C is Fender/G&L/Gibson..but I'm really a Fender guy at heart. My weapon of choice besides my Koa SD-1 is a '95 USA Fender "floyd rose classic" vin white and maple. Actually that's been my #1 geetar for a couple years now. It's bright and sounds great with my Bogner..which sounds dark. It's the best balance I have really.

The only other guitar I was so impressed with was the original Parker Fly. Man, I wished I bought it when I had the chance. I always think of that damn thing! Reguardless of looks, that was the best playing/sounding guitar I ever tried in my life. It was just kinda weird at that time ..mid 90's. But, I couldn't put it down!!!