A snowball's chance in...

[vector]

Have become frustratingly aware of the copyright issues surrounding guitar designs and am disgusted by the fact that I can't get a custom shop guitar made with my specs due to the desired head stock looking too much like a certain style head stock made by a guitar-manufacturer-who-shall-remain-unnamed. Any chance I could convince Charvel or Jackson to make me an outlaw guitar?

[shreddermon]

Next to none.

[vector]

Next to none.

Well, then I can say this with all the sincerity I can muster- F*ck Gibson and all those litigious, sue-happy, corporate muckity mucks.

[shreddermon]

Yep, preaching to the choir. Blame the lawyers and the "gentlemens agreement".

Total BS, and it is handcuffing the J/C custom shop's business. Gibson lost the body style lawsuit several years ago, so there's no legal basis to prevent building Vs, Explorers, etc. So I tried organizing a special run of custom shop Roundhorn Vs a while ago. They could've had 10 to 20 high-bucks custom shop orders from that alone, but the FMIC corporate lawyers killed it.

[sully]

Yeah, but he's talking about headstocks, here, which is somewhat different. I'm actually surprised that anyone would think that it'd be possible to get a large corporation to build an "outlaw guitar."

[Nidec]

Hmm, I can't understand why J/C are not making any other companies guitar shapes. I mean, Charvels are already doing it!! Look at Desolation for example. Arn't these single cuts too obvious?! Come on!!!

[shreddermon]

Yeah, but he's talking about headstocks, here, which is somewhat different.

Understood. The key word, though is "somewhat". First, only certain headstock shapes have been trademarked by their respective companies. Very few, in fact. So it depends on the type of headstock in question. Also, anything that has been more recently registered by companies (in the past few years), but was otherwise in the "public domain" for decades prior, is pretty much unenforceable from a legal basis. Headstock or body style, the courts are pretty much guaranteed to throw out any such "retroactive" enforcement attempts.

More importantly, however, is the so-called "gentlemens agreement". Headstock, body style, or otherwise, FMIC corporate will preclude the J/C custom shop from building it. Presumably, the Charvel Desolations are "different enough" that the lawyers got comfortable. But I've also tried to get built a "different enough" Roundhorn V design of my own, and had that rejected as well.

The bottom line is the lawyers will interpret & attempt to enforce whatever suits their business strategy needs, and not the customer's. And the J/C custom shop is losing business because of it.

[Nightbat]

I'd say the headstock agreement is quite decent
it is a guitar(manufacturer)'s identity these days

[vector]

It's not just the large corporate manufacturers that fear the wrath of the litigious Dobermans- smaller builders do as well. Rest assured I've tried to get the head stock Sully mentioned built by numerous companies large and small. Bitch of it is, Kramer used to make them and now Gibson owns Kramer so, they have a lock down on the banana/Explorer headstock. From a consumer's perspective, it's f*cked as I can't get a decent USA built guitar featuring the body style whose copyrights are owned by FMIC and a head stock owned by Gibson. :think:

[shreddermon]

The smaller builders have the most to lose. They risk getting pulled into expensive - and arguably frivolous - lawsuits filed by the big guys over this stuff. And, when filing them, the big guys know the little ones just can't afford the legal costs. What they have done, quite literally, is use the legal system to try to bully their smaller, and often up-and-coming, competition into financial submission. And, legal merits be damned, it often works. The little guys can't afford it otherwise.

[RacerX]

I can't get a decent USA built guitar featuring the body style whose copyrights are owned by FMIC and a head stock owned by Gibson. :think:

What are you trying to do, a Strat body with a Gibson banana headstock?

[markD]

I can't get a decent USA built guitar featuring the body style whose copyrights are owned by FMIC and a head stock owned by Gibson. :think:

so, you want a tele with a reverse explorer headstock?

[MetalHeadMat]

I'm kind of surprised you wouldn't be able to just ask the company who owns the headstock's permission for a one off custom. Sure they'd charge you, but so what? It's not like they're doing anything with the headstock anyways, and they'd still be making money off it.

[sully]

The smaller builders have the most to lose. They risk getting pulled into expensive - and arguably frivolous - lawsuits filed by the big guys over this stuff. And, when filing them, the big guys know the little ones just can't afford the legal costs. What they have done, quite literally, is use the legal system to try to bully their smaller, and often up-and-coming, competition into financial submission. And, legal merits be damned, it often works. The little guys can't afford it otherwise.

Yep. I have zero interest in the negative attention. I turn down a lot of potential work (and I know a couple others that do as well) because it's not worth it whatsoever. The little guy would have to take off of work, hire a lawyer, fly out to court, and all of that stuff. It's not worth it.

I look at it this way; the headstock trademark makes the smaller builder come of up with his own design and hopefully establish an identity for themselves. If it’s good, people will buy it. I’ll also say that I’m taking steps to protect my own headstock designs because I’d be pissed royally if I saw something I came up with on someone else’s guitar.

I can see both sides of it; I understand the original poster’s concern and that it appears as if the guitar that he wants doesn’t exist. I’m empathetic to that. I think that it’s a drag that Jackson won’t do Roundhorn Vs and Firebirds anymore; they weren’t copying a headstock, and the body shapes ARE of different dimensions. That said, it’s helped me out a bit. There’s also another side of it when you have someone that wants X but doesn’t want to pay for it and still believes that they should be able to have X. I think that us little guys deal with that a bit more, though.

Sully

[MetalHeadMat]

Oh, OP, get a Ran. They'll build you a guitar with a B.C. Rich body, Jackson headstock, Gibson neck, Dean-inspired logo, and Schecter inlays.