The return of the student series

[xenophobe]

No Prob! I had kind of a brain fart, I just think it would be a temporary way to make up for ( what i'm hearing lately ) the lack of MIJ Jacksons plus I just thought it would be kinda nice, I kinda thought the RR2 and the SL2 were kinda blah, weren't they both only around for like 2 yrs 96-97 or something like that both had really cheap components if they could take the Charvel production models add two extra frets and a pointy Jackson logo head stock I think that would kick butt and fill the void for the time being especially if they could sell them for 1000 dollars

I didn't mind the Takeuchi trem and the pickups on my RR2, but the facts were that for an acceptable entry-level USA Jackson the very reasons why they weren't popular was because they had the inferior components. I would be all for a reissued and updated Charvel Model 6, 650xl or 750xl... or other model series, but I doubt a reissue neck-thru would even sell for much less under $1k new.

You could make a new $1000 USA Soloist with scrap-grade body wood, lower grade fretboards, no binding and dots and lower quality hardware and electronics... but who the hell would actually want that?

If anything, I'd rather see Jackson step it up a notch and go for higher grade workmanship on customs.

[guitarnut1980]

I didn't mind the Takeuchi trem and the pickups on my RR2, but the facts were that for an acceptable entry-level USA Jackson the very reasons why they weren't popular was because they had the inferior components. I would be all for a reissued and updated Charvel Model 6, 650xl or 750xl... or other model series, but I doubt a reissue neck-thru would even sell for much less under $1k new.

You could make a new $1000 USA Soloist with scrap-grade body wood, lower grade fretboards, no binding and dots and lower quality hardware and electronics... but who the hell would actually want that?

If anything, I'd rather see Jackson step it up a notch and go for higher grade workmanship on customs.

I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread, but technically the rr2 and the sl2 weren't the " Student" series per say, the original student series dated early to pre 1990's and would be the equivalent to the current usa selects without all the extra amenities " nice tops, binding , pearl "moto haha" inlays, graphics, gold hardware ect ect..." but really it is perfectly feasible if ESP and Ibanez and Fender can do it why cant Jackson as well who says it has to be under 1000 dollars, hell with similar specs if it were to go for up to 1500 dollars street price for a variety of models , fuck yeah I would buy one that would kick total ass, a bare bones Jackson offered in various different models made in the USA for $1500 with similar quality to the selects and all the competitors, how could they lose they deserve to be able to offer a bigger variety of US made guitars to kick the other metal guitar brands in the balls with

[Gartron]

[QUOTE=canadian bacon;1494886]

That's how I see it too. I have never liked the idea of cheaper Jacksons. Growing up playing guitar, I always wanted a Jackson. I couldn't afford one, so I saved my money until I could. There were no imports back then, just USA made. Jacksons were almost mythical, and if you saw that name on a headstock, it was always attached to something incredible. The fact that there wasn't a lesser Jackson for less money made perfect sense. If you want a top of the line amazingly well built guitar, buy a Jackson. If you want a cheaper version, buy something else.]


Completely agree. Over 20 years playing before buying my first USA Jackson. Should be something to aspire to, not to be compared to cheap imports. Maybe Charvel is becoming the "epiphone"?

100% agree...although at the end of the day they're in the business of making money and I'm sure they have made a shedload of cash from the JS series, personally (as an admitted gear snob!) I would have preferred that they had kept an offshoot line for the entry level (like the Japanese Charvel line in the 80's) , and left the Jackson brand for top of the line.

As far as I'm aware you can't buy a cheap entry level Suhr, Caparison or Tom Anderson.

[Accept2]

From Musicians Friend: SLX $549 - $599; SL3MG $1399; SL1 $1999. Looks good to me, if you want the cheapy, its there for $599. How many fuckin models should they build?..........

[bratfink]

I have an 86 Soloist student. Best guitar I own. Everyone who has ever played thinks its amazing.

A friend brought his SL2H (I think that's what it was) over the other day as he had just bought it and thought it was the best guitar he'd ever played. He played on my student for a few mins and went away depressed saying his Soloist was shit.

I was thinking about putting a custom shop order in to Jackson to make me a student just like the one I have now! It's that good!

As for making them for less than $1000, well that kinda defeats the object doesn't it? USA's are supposed to better and therefore more expensive. The USA is supposed to hang out of reach behind the counter at a guitar shop, the kids are supposed to come and drool over it dreaming of the day they can afford it. Making at attianable spoils the dream.

The maistake they made was putting the Jackson name on the imports. They should have stuck with Charvel on the imports.

The problem with CG/SA is that all they care about is shifting stock, if stuff doesn't sell in 3 days after getting it then they don't want it on the shelf. USA Jacksons don't sell that fast since people actually have to earn money to pay for them.

[xenophobe]

I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread, but technically the rr2 and the sl2 weren't the " Student" series per say, the original student series dated early to pre 1990's and would be the equivalent to the current usa selects without all the extra amenities " nice tops, binding , pearl "moto haha" inlays, graphics, gold hardware ect ect..."

Yeah while that's true, it's also true what I said earlier in the thread that you couldn't really make a Student model they way they used to be made either. They changed manufacturing procedures. Instead of putting crappier stuff on a custom guitars to reduce the price, they kept the good stuff but mass produced them in batches to keep the prices down. I guess if you put crappier stuff on mass produced guitars... then you're getting the worst of both worlds.

but really it is perfectly feasible if ESP and Ibanez and Fender can do it why cant Jackson as well who says it has to be under 1000 dollars, hell with similar specs if it were to go for up to 1500 dollars street price for a variety of models , fuck yeah I would buy one that would kick total ass, a bare bones Jackson offered in various different models made in the USA for $1500 with similar quality to the selects and all the competitors, how could they lose they deserve to be able to offer a bigger variety of US made guitars to kick the other metal guitar brands in the balls with

Even if ESP and Ibanez both offer USA models for $1500, anyway that's irrelevant.

Please tell me how you can shave 1/3 the price off a USA Select. I'll tell you. Use significantly lower cost materials, hardware and labor as well as reducing QC levels. And I'll say it again, you'll have a bunch of low cost crappy guitars that will just make the Jackson USA lines look like crap.

[CowboyFromHell]

Ok, everyone keeps saying you can't build a US select under a grand, then why not look at this from the other end. Up grade some things on lower end models to create a mid-card guitar that fits what's being discussed here even if it's not made in the US. Btw, wanting there to be an affordable alternative to the US selects doesn't mean a person has a "sense of entitlement" like some keep saying. If Jackson wanted to be a high-end only brand they shouldn't have an entry-level series yet they do. Why shouldn't there be a step between those entry-level guitars and high-end ones? Simply because some people's arrogance puts them above playing it? Simple, then don't buy it, but don't look down on people who play something less than what you play. I'm sure you didn't always play high-end Jacksons/Charvels.

[MetalHeadMat]

Why shouldn't there be a step between those entry-level guitars and high-end ones?

You mean like, the Pro Series? High quality guitars with partially striped specs but with good pickups, tuners, and an alright bridge is what I define as between the entry and high end series guitars, and that's what the Pro series is.

[CowboyFromHell]

Aren't those out of production though?

[MetalHeadMat]

Aren't those out of production though?

Nope, just uncertain of which company will make them now. If they move production from Japan I will never buy anything but used Jackson's/USA made again.

[guitarnut1980]

Yeah while that's true, it's also true what I said earlier in the thread that you couldn't really make a Student model they way they used to be made either. They changed manufacturing procedures. Instead of putting crappier stuff on a custom guitars to reduce the price, they kept the good stuff but mass produced them in batches to keep the prices down. I guess if you put crappier stuff on mass produced guitars... then you're getting the worst of both worlds.




Even if ESP and Ibanez both offer USA models for $1500, anyway that's irrelevant.

Please tell me how you can shave 1/3 the price off a USA Select. I'll tell you. Use significantly lower cost materials, hardware and labor as well as reducing QC levels. And I'll say it again, you'll have a bunch of low cost crappy guitars that will just make the Jackson USA lines look like crap.

I wasn't saying that ESP and Ibanez offer USA guitars, I was merely saying that they can market a fairly affordable standard line of guitars as opposed to their really high end stuff " Ibanez Prestige- ESP Standard" and are nice guitars I think for the money, I thought the first run of Charvel pro-mods out of the USA was nice- they still had good components on them right! for 1000 dollars , to take off 30% off of a 2100 dollar guitars ( with the price increase) would be 1500 dollars "like i said previously" also the Fender Deluxe series goes for 1500 dollars street price new. " . say you severely limited the finish options I do think you could even offer a USA made soloist for 1500 dollars and still get a great guitar " alder body, maple neck, dot, floyd, duncans" and say only 5 solid color options, I do think that is reasonable and possible, oh and mentioned earlier in the thread beyond peoples belief John Suhr does offer an asian guitar called Rasmus http://www.rasmusguitars.com/ sorry if nobody likes this

[MetalHeadMat]

I wasn't saying that ESP and Ibanez offer USA guitars, I was merely saying that they can market a fairly affordable standard line of guitars as opposed to their really high end stuff " Ibanez Prestige- ESP Standard" and are nice guitars I think for the money, I thought the first run of Charvel pro-mods out of the USA was nice- they still had good components on them right! for 1000 dollars , to take off 30% off of a 2100 dollar guitars ( with the price increase) would be 1500 dollars "like i said previously" also the Fender Deluxe series goes for 1500 dollars street price new. " . say you severely limited the finish options I do think you could even offer a USA made soloist for 1500 dollars and still get a great guitar " alder body, maple neck, dot, floyd, duncans" and say only 5 solid color options, I do think that is reasonable and possible, oh and mentioned earlier in the thread beyond peoples belief John Suhr does offer an asian guitar called Rasmus http://www.rasmusguitars.com/ sorry if nobody likes this

So basically you want a Charvel variant of every Jackson model, to make an entry level type of USA guitar? I can kind of see what you mean.

Maybe 3 series?
Jackson USA Standard: All bolt on, (minus the Soloist of course), solid colour, rosewood fretboard, no binding, but still still the top of the line black/gold hardware, alder body and maple neck.
Jackson USA Select: Neck through, solid or trans finish, ebony board with MOP sharkfin inlays, neck/headstock binding, alder body/maple neck, black/chrome hardware
Jackson USA Select Custom: Neck through, trans finish, ebony board (or maybe Pau Ferro?) with MOP sharkfin inlays, neck/headstock/body binding, mahogany body/AAAAAA maple top (I don't know how to grade tops), maple/mahogany neck, gold hardware, maybe even Bare Knuckle Pickups and sanded neck?

I don't know... The more I think about this, the less feasible it sounds. If I was saving up for a first USA guitar, I'd say fuck the USA Standard and go for a Select. I just don't see the need for a Student-esque style of guitar in Jackson's lineup.

[guitarnut1980]

So basically you want a Charvel variant of every Jackson model, to make an entry level type of USA guitar? I can kind of see what you mean.

Maybe 3 series?
Jackson USA Standard: All bolt on, (minus the Soloist of course), solid colour, rosewood fretboard, no binding, but still still the top of the line black/gold hardware, alder body and maple neck.
Jackson USA Select: Neck through, solid or trans finish, ebony board with MOP sharkfin inlays, neck/headstock binding, alder body/maple neck, black/chrome hardware
Jackson USA Select Custom: Neck through, trans finish, ebony board (or maybe Pau Ferro?) with MOP sharkfin inlays, neck/headstock/body binding, mahogany body/AAAAAA maple top (I don't know how to grade tops), maple/mahogany neck, gold hardware, maybe even Bare Knuckle Pickups and sanded neck?

I don't know... The more I think about this, the less feasible it sounds. If I was saving up for a first USA guitar, I'd say fuck the USA Standard and go for a Select. I just don't see the need for a Student-esque style of guitar in Jackson's lineup.

Not exactly I was saying that they were able to do a run of fairly affordable Charvel guitars and still have quality components " so they seemed". This may be a poor comparison but take for instance the ESP MII NTB, $1799 new street price, 1 color option, I know Jackson could produce a soloist of similar nature for the same or less cost,
The way I'm looking at it is like this- the Select series has a fairly vast finish variety= higher cost, fancy wood = higher cost, ect ect.. if they eliminated all the extras and fancy wood and still offered them in say 5 or six solid color options, they could still do the soloist, rhoads, kelly, v. for under 1800 dollars, we have just become accustomed to believing that high priced items equals higher quality which is crap, I guess people have never heard of an expensive POS! but I do think it is possible, oh and a AAA top is a nicely figured top like most of the selects, a AAAAA is kind of like the super figured top on theRoot Beer guitar Phil Collen plays

[Gartron]

oh and mentioned earlier in the thread beyond peoples belief John Suhr does offer an asian guitar called Rasmus http://www.rasmusguitars.com/ sorry if nobody likes this

That was part of my point about cheapening the brand..Suhr offer a more affordable option of their guitar , but it#s not a Suhr..it's a Rasmus.

The more I think about this issue, I think if you want an affordable USA Jackson...get one from the 80's off of e-bay !! , My 87 strat that i picked up last year has a real floyd and an ebony board and was $650 !!

[1994]

As a teenager of the early 90's I agree with everyone who aspired to own a USA Jackson - the best rock guitar you could get and a lifetime purchase. However, in 2012 the market is quite different. When I wanted to step up from my mid-range Ibanez, I went for an ESP Standard Series (In the UK the price gap between the DK2 and DK1 is around £1,500). No shops stock a DK1 and the DK1 is £600 more than a Standard Series M-II. If I had £2,000+ to spend (the price bracket which an SL1/DK1 falls into) I would go for a Suhr (Pro or Standard series). I think Suhr guitars are excellent in all departments and they are becoming very popular in the UK - delaers are always stocking new models and there is a buzz of excitement about the instruments - the same buzz Jackson had back in the day.

Rather than introducing a cheaper US line of guitars, I'd like to see Jackson go to town with the existing US line - more models, more variants (maple boards, reverse headstocks, pickup configurations) and more innovation