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**JacksonShredder** · 12-01-2002, 09:38 AM

Re: virus, again

That is Strange, Thanks for the heads up

**skidd** · 12-01-2002, 10:13 AM

Re: virus, again

1st Thing to do is get rid of Macfee. I run a internet base store and we get about 400-500 mails a day, Macafee was nothing but promblems,we went with Norton and been great nothing has gotten though since. Also if yo can use a free e-mail service like yahoo and then download it to outlook, Norton will get em everytime. I was geting so sick of redoing my comps all the time. Good Luck

**trillian guitars** · 12-01-2002, 12:57 PM

Re: virus, again

i have both macafee and norton....i like macafee much better.....it has nothing to do with your brand of virus protection, the trojan disables them all

**nor** · 12-01-2002, 06:29 PM

Re: virus, again

Virus scanners are virtually worthless against most of the current Trojans - because Trojans are not Viruses. It's not that McAfee or Norton don't have the tech - they simply cannot automate the sophistication without sacrificing the simplistic interface (and rock-bottom pricing) necessary for the general Windows user-base.

Some of the new Remote Access Trojans appearing are technically very well written, and can hide themselves so well, that on Win9x and ME systems are not visible as a process. Most scanners will NOT find these trojans by conventional methods as there is little indication of their presence.

I've used both McAfee and Norton for years (home and industrial-strength versions), and find very little difference in their detection capabilities. The main diffs (IMO) are in how frequently they screw up your system.

Now, I'm a NUT about keeping my scanners current and 'hot'. My home systems do full, detailed scans - followed by Definition updates - every night. But after reading a couple of articles discussing what Virus Scanners don't do... I decided to see for myself.

I downloaded a prog called Trojan Hunter, installed and ran it - found nothing. I promptly lost interest, and forgot about it. About a week later, my system started booting with the virus scanner disabled - but the settings seemed correct. So I restarted Trojan Hunter..

" -ALERT!- Trojan Detected!"

But the freaking program couldn't even tell me what it was, let alone do anything about it. [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

So I d/l a prog called 'Trojan Defense Suite (TDS-3) - wow! Not only did it find it - it ID'd the bugger, showed me the memory processes it was attaching to (allowing me to adjust my firewall to disrupt the comm link), and detailed exactly which registry-keys, system files, and boot processes my 'Visitor' was hiding behind. It took me about 3-4 hours (and about 4 reboots)to manually eliminate any trace of the bugger.

My virus scanner just hummed along - oblivious to the direct attack on my system - sucking up ram and resources, waiting for something it was good at.

Now, TDS-3 is not a virus scanner - I still need to have that. The point seems to be... Trojan defense cannot be done automatically - because Trojans are controlled by humans, not a few lines of code. I had to manually edit...
- several registry keys
- system.ini
- win.ini
And I had to do it 4 times, because the Trojan's source file kept squirting around my file system before I finally caught the master attached to an Internet Explorer background image in an area so deep in the file system that I never even knew it existed. [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

McAfee and Norton can't do that. Only humans can.

Don't rely on mass-consumer technology to protect you from a specially-crafted, focued, and human-directed intrusion. 'Cause the human wins, every time.

**skidd** · 12-02-2002, 01:05 AM

Re: virus, again

The trojan has never gotten though our norton system,but I also run a real firewall not a program one,just trying to help, macafee was nothing but promblems for us.

**XXX** · 12-02-2002, 01:23 AM

Re: virus, again

same here, almost everyday

**skidd** · 12-02-2002, 09:39 AM

Re: virus, again

I'll run that by my IT guy,see if we have that. Maybe we have just been lucky,but we get tons of mail every day, and since the switch nothing has gotten though. Thanks for the tip.

**LRGman** · 12-02-2002, 11:24 AM

Re: virus, again

Just by coincidence I loaded up TDS-3 last night. I found a worm in my registry. It is pretty cool.

**Cleveland Metal** · 12-02-2002, 12:23 PM

Re: virus, again

You guys are just using the 30 day trial of TDS-3?

It has my interest quite high...

**LRGman** · 12-02-2002, 12:56 PM

Re: virus, again

Yea I am using the 30 day trial(I am gonna buy it though) and I also loaded up Sygate firewall(free one). Took me 3 times to get rid of some stuff in my registry.

**Cleveland Metal** · 12-02-2002, 11:35 PM

Re: virus, again

Now, my reboot startup scan, shows it has a Mutex... doesn't tell me where.. When I do a system scan, it shows nothing... Aghh..

And I don't know what to do when I find it... Doh... Not good...

**Cleveland Metal** · 12-03-2002, 01:41 AM

Re: virus, again

Cool, I got the 30 day, it found nothing so far, other than a few (legit) suspicious file extensions...

I have to look through the program again and make sure I did all the scans, I'm pretty sure I did.

Cool program for sure.

Thanx guys!

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