New Pro series!

[Devotee]

Wait.... lolwut?

*looks at your join date*

Ah, nub.

Here, just to prove my point, these are the color options for almost all USA Select guitars (meaning that you can get any USA Guitar with any of these finishes, from 2001):

I actually have that catalogue so your 'nub' comment is pretty inaccurate... Either way, this isn't a dick-measuring contest about who knows more about Jacksons, it's about facts. I wasn't talking about USA Select model finish options specifically, i was talking about features right across the board.

I think these new Pro series are right on the money and priced well, Thomann has an RRMG listed for 777EUR. I'm gonna start saving my pennies.

markD: $1000 may seem high but you have to bear in mind that gear is always more expensive in Europe.

[xenophobe]

I actually have that catalogue so your 'nub' comment is pretty inaccurate... Either way, this isn't a dick-measuring contest about who knows more about Jacksons, it's about facts. I wasn't talking about USA Select model finish options specifically, i was talking about features right across the board.

It doesn't matter what you're saying. You're making a generalist, blanket statement that is not fact, but opinion. It applies to you, and other people. To the other large group of people on this board you're either obvious to, or ignorant of, your "facts" are bullshit. Options for us have done nothing but decrease. I don't care there's a $100 model, and a $300 model and a $600 model. Those aren't "options" for many of us. For many of us, we used to have 20-30 finish options per body style. Now we only have 2 or 3.

So, no, my nub statement is more accurate than yours. At least to me, and many others. When is the last time we received a new USA Select body style or model? How many import versions have been made since that last USA Select style was introduced? Yeah, you were saying? .....

[Devotee]

Jesus Christ dude, it seems i have to spell it out for you. To repeat, i'm not talking about the USA Select series, i'm talking in general (bold, underlined and italic for you). What i mean by options is the following: maple fretboards, quilted tops, fretboard binding, reverse headstocks, SLS headstocks, matching headstocks, neck-through construction, direct mounted pickups, zebra pickups, EMGs, hardware colours, etc... Check your little 2001 catalogue and you'll notice you had no such options on the Pro series or any other series for that matter. This is a rock-solid fact, not an opinion. Just because you're not willing to buy an import that does have these features doesn't mean they don't exist. What kind of logic is that?

I do absolutely agree with your assertion about the USA Select series. Nothing has changed on those since God knows when and the finish options have decreased while prices have increased. But that wasn't my point in the first place - my point was that Jacksons in general have never had more options than now. But hopefully, as i said in my last post, maybe the next step for Jackson is to revamp the USA Select series too, it's been a long time coming. Fingers crossed for an Extreme Warrior, Kelly Star and other body options to rear their pretty faces too.

[xenophobe]

Jesus Christ dude, it seems i have to spell it out for you. To repeat, i'm not talking about the USA Select series, i'm talking in general (bold, underlined and italic for you). What i mean by options is the following: maple fretboards, quilted tops, fretboard binding, reverse headstocks, SLS headstocks, matching headstocks, neck-through construction, direct mounted pickups, zebra pickups, EMGs, hardware colours, etc... Check your little 2001 catalogue and you'll notice you had no such options on the Pro series or any other series for that matter. This is a rock-solid fact, not an opinion. Just because you're not willing to buy an import that does have these features doesn't mean they don't exist. What kind of logic is that?

It appears to be too adult a puzzle for you. I'll say this one more time in a way you can more easily understand. I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE IMPORT LINE LIKE MANY OTHER VETERAN PLAYERS HERE, THEY ARE NOT AN OPTION TO A GREAT NUMBER OF PEOPLE. "In general" doesn't cater to me, or many others here.

We're both fucking fans of the same brand. We shouldn't even be arguing. I've tasted the Prime Ribeye and single malt whiskey, I don't want to go back to rice cakes and warm Coors Light no matter how good you tell me it is. My only option these days is the Custom Shop. And my option is now twice as long as it was 10 years ago... 24 months to realization every time I have that that desire. That's the only option I have left.

And seriously, the bullshit from others about "oh you just want to wave $3k in someone's face" insults my intelligence. Most of my RL friends don't ever see what guitars they own and they certainly don't know how much they cost. When they ask, I always say "a couple hundred bucks". It's nobody's business but my own. JCF isn't real life, it's an escape from it. If you want to eat some greasy Chicken McNuggets and your small fries and a coke, hey good for you. That's not for me and you will not force me to enjoy that.

Dude, realize that your opinion isn't the only valid opinion. I can base my opinion with facts as well. I've clearly labeled why I'm making the statement that applies to me, and I know I'm speaking for a good number of people. I've rationalized my argument.

Derp.

[Devotee]

...So it seems we agree after all.

Dude, i get it; the ribeye and single malt is a great analogy. But you have to take into account that the number of players in a similar position to yours (i.e.: can/willing to buy CS only, one-offs and generally only high-end niche guitars) are far less compared to the players who will buy the more cookie-cutter production line imports. No one's forcing you to buy one or drink from the import Kool Aid, broseph; it's your prerogative. I never said my opinion was the only valid opinion, merely that my blanket statement (as you put it and pretty much exactly how i meant it) is a demonstrable fact. Maybe i should have been specific and said "except for the USA Select and CS"...

That said though, the Custom Shop wait times, ridiculous arbitrary 'rules' as to what you can and can't order, and the relatively high chance that what you get in the end isn't what you ordered is completely unacceptable. It's kind of like ordering a rump steak with mushroom sauce and potatoes au gratin, waiting an hour and instead getting garlic sauce and mashed potatoes. At least when you order Chicken McNuggets, you will always get Chicken McNuggets.

[CowboyFromHell]

Devotee, go outside to your driveway, stare at your yard and spend the next 24 hours trying to convince it that concrete is better. Trying to argue with Xeno is about as pointless as what I just told you to do. Anything said that doesn't agree with or support his stance is, by default, wrong. To continue doing so will only result in you being ridiculed and browbeat until you can no longer even enjoy the forum. Regardless of perfectly valid points that you may make, your posts will be nitpicked apart with the most minute piece of it pulled out of context and run into the ground until you see that trying to have a conversation is an exercise in futility.

[Rich#6]

If you only buy USA why even post regarding the imports. Your mind is already made up that they are not good enough before you buy them.

[Nightbat]

And seriously, the bullshit from others about "oh you just want to wave $3k in someone's face" insults my intelligence..

Ah, I see I hit a bullseye

You damn well know that there are the corksniffing elite in ANY kind of collectable hobby that would like nothing more than show off their 'holy grails' and 'treasures'
and feel like a special snowflake because only 'a select few' are able to afford stuff like that

Since when are you someone that wants to see US Jacksons to end up in the "unobtainable" market?
If you're not, stop taking things personal and settle down before choking on every comment you don't like and call it 'bullshit'

[Prince Vultan]

What a thoroughly enjoyable thread.

I hope this means there's a chance of a Mexican resurrection of the Pro-Mod line too.

[j2379]

Xeno, i couldn't agree more. as kid i cut countless lawns in my neighborhood to buy a new ESP, under $450, this was the closest thing to the $1200+ jackson soloist i could afford. not long after that, but many lawns later i purchased my first USA rich bich neckthru. I was hooked, i did buy a few more nice ESPs along the way, but for the most part Ive stuck with USA made Charvels, Jacksons, BCRichs and a couple of Hamers. while there are a number of imports that are really nice, the old model series guitars, PRS SE's, OLD neckthru NJs for the most part they just arent as good. sure you may get the pick of the litter and find a great one, but like anything you get what you pay for. my model6 that a bought new in 88 is the only import i didn't sell off, and not because i partially destroyed it but because it really does play as good as my usa soloist.

from my experience most of the imports nowadays have that generic feel and sound. the most consistently nice imports ive played PRS SEs. hell i think the fretwork on them is as good as NON plek'd usa gibsons.....or better.

[joshulator]

There are 10 women in a room. 8 are beautiful, 2 are ugly.

3 of the beautiful women leave, and an additional 5 ugly women enter the room.

There are now 5 beautiful women, and 7 ugly women.

Devotee points out that there are now more women in the room.

Xeno points out that he doesn't like ugly women, so there are in fact fewer women in the room.

[Rich#6]

just tell which ones are easy.

[DarkkWarriorr]

There are 10 women in a room. 8 are beautiful, 2 are ugly.

3 of the beautiful women leave, and an additional 5 ugly women enter the room.

There are now 5 beautiful women, and 7 ugly women.

Devotee points out that there are now more women in the room.

Xeno points out that he doesn't like ugly women, so there are in fact fewer women in the room.

Nice analogy...
Devotee: Hey hey hey, the more titties to squeeze the better.
Xeno: Nah, I only squeeze the perfectly rounded titties, we need more of that bitches.

[Trem]

just tell me which ones are easy.

[xenophobe]

Devotee, go outside to your driveway, stare at your yard and spend the next 24 hours trying to convince it that concrete is better. Trying to argue with Xeno is about as pointless as what I just told you to do. Anything said that doesn't agree with or support his stance is, by default, wrong. To continue doing so will only result in you being ridiculed and browbeat until you can no longer even enjoy the forum. Regardless of perfectly valid points that you may make, your posts will be nitpicked apart with the most minute piece of it pulled out of context and run into the ground until you see that trying to have a conversation is an exercise in futility.

Wow, you always come find a random thread I'm in and attack me for no other reason to attack. Good Job. BTW, I'm not afraid to point out your stupidity but I've certainly never attacked you in a thread for no reason at all. Don't dish it out if you can't take it. Seriously...

Just say the word and I'll blacklist you, hell just blacklist me. I honestly don't care or think about it at all...

...So it seems we agree after all.

Dude, i get it; the ribeye and single malt is a great analogy. But you have to take into account that the number of players in a similar position to yours (i.e.: can/willing to buy CS only, one-offs and generally only high-end niche guitars) are far less compared to the players who will buy the more cookie-cutter production line imports. No one's forcing you to buy one or drink from the import Kool Aid, broseph; it's your prerogative. I never said my opinion was the only valid opinion, merely that my blanket statement (as you put it and pretty much exactly how i meant it) is a demonstrable fact. Maybe i should have been specific and said "except for the USA Select and CS"...

That said though, the Custom Shop wait times, ridiculous arbitrary 'rules' as to what you can and can't order, and the relatively high chance that what you get in the end isn't what you ordered is completely unacceptable. It's kind of like ordering a rump steak with mushroom sauce and potatoes au gratin, waiting an hour and instead getting garlic sauce and mashed potatoes. At least when you order Chicken McNuggets, you will always get Chicken McNuggets.

The whole thing is, so many options were removed from USA Select guitars, you actually have less options as a whole. Each one of those USA Select Series guitars had a different SKU for each paint style... and before you go mentioning what options Jackson is giving out with the newer imports... more than half the stuff you listed was superficial and doesn't affect playability.

Ah, I see I hit a bullseye

You damn well know that there are the corksniffing elite in ANY kind of collectable hobby that would like nothing more than show off their 'holy grails' and 'treasures'
and feel like a special snowflake because only 'a select few' are able to afford stuff like that

No, you didn't hit a bullseye, you completely missed the mark and hit someone else's target. If you've ever been to a rifle range, you'd know that is an embarrassment.

I'll explain a little of what I meant. A friend kept telling me how great his Meshuggah guitar was. He kept telling me I should get one. I thought $6k? Yeah, when I see forest fires on the moon. I looked at the pictures and read what people had to say about them. They looked like they had inconsistent coloring and finishes and they have a "big wow" factor... as in, you remember that saying, BFD. I was unimpressed. I thought it was a gimmick to milk the rabid Meshuggah fanbase. I put a joke bid on a guitar. A month later the guy emails me and we work out a $3800 price tag for a $6000 guitar that had only started shipping two months earlier. I bought my Ibanez M8M just to put on a shelf and forget about, to try to sell for $$$$ after they stop making them. Then I played it. I was like, WTF? I played it more.... 15 minutes and I'm used to the neck, an hour later most of my scales modified to fit 8 strings. I stopped in the middle of playing a number of times just to start giggling, or rather cackling like a little obsessed girl. Uncontrollably. There was just something about this guitar. It really wasn't a gimmick. Then I started examining it very closely, I mean nitpicky magnifying glass wondering wtf, I thought this was some cookie cutter CS piece designed to rape the parents of the teenaged kids who idolized this guitar.

The more I looked at it, the more confused I got. Looking at it from the "can almost grab it" range, it looked like a flawlessly sculptured guitar. Quite honestly it looked like a sterile hospital instrument... it looked like it was chiseled out of stone and every cut, grind and curve looked flawless. But this guitar isn't sterile, it's really got some unique character. Then I started looking at it with my nose all up in it. I noticed under the right lighting, I could see all these little inconsistencies on the neck, but if you step back, it loooks perfect, but really closely, all the little imperfections totalled into a perfect carve... a whole bunch of little flaws... well, not really flaws. I looked more, I saw the perfect sculpted wrist cut and waist cut... all had these inconsistencies along the edge, one side had more grind at this part, but the other edge had it a little further down... but when you looked at it from 2 feet away, it's a perfectly sculpted line... So I started to realize that all this character I've noticed from the beginning while thinking this was just some gimmick guitar, was far from it. The closer I looked, the more obvious it became. It didn't feel sterile because it wasn't, it was a meticulously handcrafted masterpiece. I'm no virtuoso and this is no fancy Italian violin or cello. But the difference I could tell from playing it, that it wasn't something just thrown together, it is a nearly perfect balance of playability, tone across 8 strings and hand shaped magnificence.

I really didn't know about who made these before I bought mine, I didn't care. I later found out that these are handcrafted at the Sugi factory to order which is a small shop with only 5 master luthiers. Except they don't produce a bunch. They build them to order, one at a time. A luthier will pick up an order and work on only that one single guitar until it's finished to his quality standard. He's not working on a dozen other guitars, he's only working on that one order, start to finish, and until he decided it was ready to go. Only then would he pick up the next order and start the process over again. So a rather sterile looking guitar has all this character in your hands, every feature, everything done with a specific purpose. One of the most thought out and balanced designs I've ever played.

Even the model series had this quality to them with hand shaped necks. You could pick up 3 Charvels all with consecutive serial numbers, and each neck would be different, some barely noticeable, others completely different profiles. I've not felt that with any of the newer stuff and certainly not with the MIC guitars. Yes, I even own one of those... I wonder how many people are basing opinions from pictures. I'm not.

So it's fine, a lot of people buy their Jacksons just for the look. I buy the brand Jackson because I want to have intense personal moments with my guitars based on how they feel and play, but yes, it's appearance does matter a whole lot. You don't often get that from a cookie cutter mass produced guitar, I'm not saying it can't happen, it's just the likelyhood of it happening with a US or Custom is far greater. In my search for the "perfect" guitar, that's my experience. And I'm saying this as someone who exclusively played Charvel/Jackson from the first one I bought in 86 till sometime in mid 2000's when I bought my first non-Jackson related product since 1985.

Maybe some people just don't get it. I can understand that. I used to be a contractor and I did a lot of high end wood finish work all over the bay in some of the most expensive homes here. I know what good woodworking is like when I examine it and I marvel in it's splendor. I don't get that with any of the imports and I often don't get that with USA Selects. Even customs are hit or miss like that, and just as I think it was Lou who said in a different thread, you can have all the best materials, all the best workmanship, your favorite layout and the best luthier to craft a guitar that in the end you just can't bond with for some reason. I just find I'm more likely to bond with a high quality guitar because I already know what the best Jacksons feel like in my hands.

I've had this experience with a small number of Charvels and Jacksons, probably about a half dozen have given me this feeling, and I've owned at least 60-70 of them. I'm searching for the next Holy Grail, not to wave in anyone's face but to privately experience something unique about it. Will I post pictures of it when I find it, probably. People love guitar porn, and I'm one of them. If I knew you personally as a friend IRL or if you were a band member or one of the people I randomly interact with in real life? You'd probably never even know.

That's how close you "nailed it". I just think you don't get it. I could tell you a similar, but different story about ever "keeper" I've ever owned. If I don't get this feeling, I don't keep it.

Since when are you someone that wants to see US Jacksons to end up in the "unobtainable" market?
If you're not, stop taking things personal and settle down before choking on every comment you don't like and call it 'bullshit'

Dude, I don't want to see US Jacksons in the unobtainable market. I'm the guy saying there aren't enough options available to me, and all my options have been removed.

Xeno, i couldn't agree more. as kid i cut countless lawns in my neighborhood to buy a new ESP, under $450, this was the closest thing to the $1200+ jackson soloist i could afford. not long after that, but many lawns later i purchased my first USA rich bich neckthru. I was hooked, i did buy a few more nice ESPs along the way, but for the most part Ive stuck with USA made Charvels, Jacksons, BCRichs and a couple of Hamers. while there are a number of imports that are really nice, the old model series guitars, PRS SE's, OLD neckthru NJs for the most part they just arent as good. sure you may get the pick of the litter and find a great one, but like anything you get what you pay for. my model6 that a bought new in 88 is the only import i didn't sell off, and not because i partially destroyed it but because it really does play as good as my usa soloist.

from my experience most of the imports nowadays have that generic feel and sound. the most consistently nice imports ive played PRS SEs. hell i think the fretwork on them is as good as NON plek'd usa gibsons.....or better.

Thanks! I completely understand. Glad we can share that much.