An updated JS Series!

[Nails In Your Coffin]

Devotee, you got it right. I agree with you.

I've been preaching the JS serie since I got for fun a JS30 Kelly. I wanted a Kelly shape Jackson with a fixed bridge and back then, except from going CS, the JS was the only option.

Since then, I got a JS KV in a trade for so damn cheap (traded a pedal for it) and both KE and KV have seen the stage with me. Nope, both aren't my JP6 (my main axe) but both are very decent axes in their stock form and for the price they sell.

As I said in another post about that new serie, that new KV black with white bevel is very tempting!

The JS series just keeps getting better and better. When I got my JS Warrior, I thought it was a great guitar for the cash. Two or three years later, I think the JS series models have taken another huge step. I'd love to have a new Warrior, especially given it's now equipped with the Speed Neck. I have a Speed Neck on my KV2 and absolutely love it. In fact, I've been thinking hard about a custom Warrior with a Speed Neck.

Someone mentioned Fender doesn't really know what to do with Jackson. IMO, Fender's doing exactly what the need to, and besides, I'm not sure about kids these days, but when I was young, I didn't find Stratocasters or Telecasters to be pleasing to the eye like a B.C. Rich Warlock or some other aggressively styled guitar; aka a "Metal guitar."

[DarkkWarriorr]

In the last 10 years, forum activity has dropped, not increased. You'd think all those kids would want to come to their guitar site. Nope. Jackson isn't in the limelight and hasn't been for quite a while now. And as for low to mid-priced Jacksons and Charvels, I'll take a Korean World Guitar build over anything Jackson puts out, they're far better built and use better materials.

However, it would be nice if you can buy a Ferrari clone for the price of a KIA.

The thing is Fender/Jackson aren't promoting the brand enough, not to mention that not enough hot artist have been endorsing it either!
I guess beginners in general don't care much about the higher quality of their instruments as long as their axes feel good and look good as their guitar heroes axes.
As for the mid-range quality instruments, I agree that Jackson needs to step it up a little, made in India or Indonesia doesn't really appeal much to the post novice or experienced player, however Ibanez is still doing it and backing it up with hot players like Vai, Satriani, Gilbert and so on...

[Nails In Your Coffin]

The thing is Fender/Jackson aren't promoting the brand enough, not to mention that not enough hot artist have been endorsing it either!
I guess beginners in general don't care much about the higher quality of their instruments as long as their axes feel good and look good as their guitar heroes axes.
As for the mid-range quality instruments, I agree that Jackson needs to step it up a little, made in India or Indonesia doesn't really appeal much to the post novice or experienced player, however Ibanez is still doing it and backing it up with hot players like Vai, Satriani, Gilbert and so on...

How many kids and beginner players do you think are scouring instrument forums? You're not going to find beginners scouring a guitar forum because they don't know a thing about instruments. What you have with beginners and first-time buyers are kids who have no clue how to change strings, tune with a tremolo, etc. Other than us seasoned players or people who are passionate about playing and the brand in general, you're not going to find people here. I own eleven guitars, all of different makes and models, yet I'm only on forums for two of those brands, this being one of them.

IMO, Jackson as a mainstream brand will cheapen the brand. It's great to find entry level models that are accessible at reasonable prices, but there still aren't a lot of places who even carry the cheap models. As for music stores carrying USA models, they're non-existent ANYWHERE near me. I'd have a better chance of finding a winning lottery ticket in the middle of the street than a USA Jackson. Jacksons are still hard to find, and that's okay with me. I'm all for the Jackson making the cheap models, but I'm also all for them not being a mainstream brand.

[DarkkWarriorr]

How many kids and beginner players do you think are scouring instrument forums? You're not going to find beginners scouring a guitar forum because they don't know a thing about instruments. What you have with beginners and first-time buyers are kids who have no clue how to change strings, tune with a tremolo, etc. Other than us seasoned players or people who are passionate about playing and the brand in general, you're not going to find people here. I own eleven guitars, all of different makes and models, yet I'm only on forums for two of those brands, this being one of them.

IMO, Jackson as a mainstream brand will cheapen the brand. It's great to find entry level models that are accessible at reasonable prices, but there still aren't a lot of places who even carry the cheap models. As for music stores carrying USA models, they're non-existent ANYWHERE near me. I'd have a better chance of finding a winning lottery ticket in the middle of the street than a USA Jackson. Jacksons are still hard to find, and that's okay with me. I'm all for the Jackson making the cheap models, but I'm also all for them not being a mainstream brand.

I agree with some of you points, and BTW I'm not an advocate of cheap quality instruments in anyway, however sometimes companies in order to sell and be competitive they probably need to adapt to the new markets. I just hate it when I see metal bands I love that used to play Jacksons, just dump them for another competitive brand simply because Jackson couldn't make their endorsers/artists happy or happy enough! And this is where I state that Jackson/Fender needs to step up and do something about it...
So if you think Fender is "cheapening" the Jackson brand/pride with their lower quality series, do you think they would be better off if they renamed some of their imports to something else (just like what ESP did with LTDs), or just dump it all together and stick with their higher quality offerings?.. Just wondering!...

[Nails In Your Coffin]

I agree with some of you points, and BTW I'm not an advocate of cheap quality instruments in anyway, however sometimes companies in order to sell and be competitive they probably need to adapt to the new markets. I just hate it when I see metal bands I love that used to play Jacksons, just dump them for another competitive brand simply because Jackson couldn't make their endorsers/artists happy or happy enough! And this is where I state that Jackson/Fender needs to step up and do something about it...
So if you think Fender is "cheapening" the Jackson brand/pride with their lower quality series, do you think they would be better off if they renamed some of their imports to something else (just like what ESP did with LTDs), or just dump it all together and stick with their higher quality offerings?.. Just wondering!...

I think you're misunderstanding. I don't think Fender is cheapening the Jackson name with lower offerings, but relabeling them wouldn't be a bad idea, sort of like what PRS have done with the "SE" series, or, as you said, ESP have done with the "LTD" series. I think it'd be important for a buyer to know, "Okay, _____ is manufactured by Jackson," if there was to be a "sub-brand" of Jackson. When a buyer purchases an LTD, he/she understands LTDs are manufactured by ESP.

In regards to whether I think Jackson should dump the cheaper models, I do not. Buyers need to be "introduced" to the brand early within their playing tenure. By introducing someone to a Jackson as a first guitar, this leaves room for that person to develop into a loyal fan of the brand, which would most certainly lead to more expensive purchases in the future.

Around five or six years ago I played a USA Jackson for the first time and I hated it. I dunno what it was, but we just didn't "connect." I played a few more since that period and still wasn't very excited about them. I wound up finding an ex-girlfriend's Ibanez in my closet, which was a total pile of crap, and traded it in at a local store towards another guitar. I hadn't the slightest clue what I wanted to replace it with, but it was going to be a more reliable guitar than what the Ibanez was. I was fairly focused on an Epiphone Les Paul, but I figured I'd look at everything.

I hit a fairly local music store and spotted a JS Kelly and Warrior. I always thought the Kelly was an awesome guitar, so I had a go with it. I really liked the feel, which surprised me. I then tried the Warrior and just fell for it. I was sold on not only the looks, but the feel of it. I liked the way it balanced and such, and I didn't think it sounded too bad.

Once I bought my JS, I sort of became a fan of Jackson. It was at that point I decided I wanted a USA Select Series or Custom Shop Warrior. Instead, I found a USA Select KV2 for sale at a local store and snatched it up. It was in beautiful shape and I just couldn't let it get away from me, especially for the price.

So, there it is. I was basically introduced to Jackson by the purchase of the JS I liked, which lead me to wanting to upgrade to a higher level within the Jackson line.

[Force]

Wow Nails, welcome to the forum

While we don't want people thinking that the JS series is what Jackson is all about, it will help them survive & bring in new customers.

As said, there is nowhere near enough effort put into advertising, snagging/keeping artists on their books or making a full range products available.

[Nails In Your Coffin]

Wow Nails, welcome to the forum

While we don't want people thinking that the JS series is what Jackson is all about, it will help them survive & bring in new customers.

As said, there is nowhere near enough effort put into advertising, snagging/keeping artists on their books or making a full range products available.

Thanks!

Personally, I think companies are pretty much singing ANYONE to endorsement deals. I mean, look at B.C. Rich, ESP, Dean... Now, I don't wanna discredit any of these guys as they could probably all play circles around me, but c'mon; CJ Pierce? Black Veil Brides? Asking Alexandria? Avenged Sevenfold? Bullet For My Valentine? These guys are jokes. 25 years ago, these guys wouldn't have even made it out of the garage, yet these days they have endorsement deals. Granted, there are some good players out there who have endorsements, but the actual guys with real skill are few and far between these days. I haven't heard a single person within the past 20 years who's impressed enough to deserve a signature guitar.

There's nothing wrong with an artist wanting to make money, but they just whore themselves out to the highest bidders. What happened to brand loyalty? Just because ESP or Dean comes to me and tells me they're going to provide me with a signature model doesn't mean I'm going to sign with them, regardless how nice the guitar is they build for me or what the pay is. Personally, I've never played a Dean I've liked, and I've played a shitload of them; everything from the cheapest Chinese/Korean models to the $4,500 American models.

Dave Mustaine is probably the biggest whore out there. That guy's been with Jackson, ESP, Dean, Line 6, Marshall, etc. He goes to whoever the highest bidder is, then trashes the companies he's worked iwth in the past, yet still plays their instruments in live shows. At one point (there's a video on YouTube) Mustaine ditched Marshall for Line 6, then commented about how great Line 6 was and how he'd never go back to Marshall, and sure enough, he's back with Marshall.

[Hellbat]

Actually, I believe MegaDave's Marshall endorsement/sig deal is just for cabs, which I believe he always used. But he is a bit of a brand hopper.

[xenophobe]

So if you think Fender is "cheapening" the Jackson brand/pride with their lower quality series, do you think they would be better off if they renamed some of their imports to something else (just like what ESP did with LTDs), or just dump it all together and stick with their higher quality offerings?.. Just wondering!...

In the 90's ESP was Jacksons's biggest rival. In the early 00's, ESP won. It doesn't help that real ESP CS (not US-CS stuff) is generally a bit higher quality than Jackson CS, but that's not the reason why. ESP has done a pretty good job preventing their name brand being recognized with low and mid priced guitars. They have several brand names for the lesser quality instruments. It's worked well for them. Fender has Squire, Gibson has Epiphone, Jackson has... Jackson. How many people ooh and awe over Charvettes? I wonder why.

As for Ibanez, they've carefully crafted their fans to have a collector mentality. Many of their higher end Vai and Satriani guitars sell used for more than they originally cost and others don't depreciate very harshly either. ESP CS guitars have a hard depreciation attached to them because they're overpriced... with their true customs starting at 8k and going up from there. ESP also did well by embracing the Japanese culture and catering specifically to it.

Jackson has languished. Shortly after Fender took over, there was a mass exodus of endorsers who left and a lot of people here raged about it. Nothing much had really been done since. Fender probably kept Jackson from going bankrupt, but if you look at what they've done with Jackson and Charvel in the time they've owned them, it's blatantly obvious that Fender has mis-managed the Charvel and Jackson brand names which were once synonymous with American custom build quality that brands like GMP, Anderson and Suhr, as well as others, still enjoy.

When most of us here were kids, Charvel and Jackson were brand names you aspired to own that were hung highest on the wall, not picked up at the $99 bargain bin section of your local consignment shop.

And while it's nice they offer entry level guitars, the fact that a dealer could now hang a dozen JS series guitars instead of one nice Custom Shop leaves them no desire to order customs for stock, so now kids aren't looking at the stores seeing Jackson as top shelf, they're more interested in getting whatever guitar their favorite artists play and if daddy will spend $1000 in that store for that Ibanez, Fender or whatever, the cheap Jacksons will just sit there while they ring up an LTD or something else.

Of course, a lot of kids here don't remember what Jackson and Charvel were like, only what they're like now.

[Nails In Your Coffin]

Actually, I believe MegaDave's Marshall endorsement/sig deal is just for cabs, which I believe he always used. But he is a bit of a brand hopper.

Nope, he jumped ship to Line 6 at one time, but other than that, yes, he's always used Marshall. After picking up his Line 6 deal, he made a comment about how much lighter the Line 6 was, and it was just basically better than a Marshall. He couldn't believe he ever used Marshall, blah blah blah...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1U-Go1cPxA

In the 90's ESP was Jacksons's biggest rival. In the early 00's, ESP won. It doesn't help that real ESP CS (not US-CS stuff) is generally a bit higher quality than Jackson CS, but that's not the reason why. ESP has done a pretty good job preventing their name brand being recognized with low and mid priced guitars. They have several brand names for the lesser quality instruments. It's worked well for them. Fender has Squire, Gibson has Epiphone, Jackson has... Jackson. How many people ooh and awe over Charvettes? I wonder why.

As for Ibanez, they've carefully crafted their fans to have a collector mentality. Many of their higher end Vai and Satriani guitars sell used for more than they originally cost and others don't depreciate very harshly either. ESP CS guitars have a hard depreciation attached to them because they're overpriced... with their true customs starting at 8k and going up from there. ESP also did well by embracing the Japanese culture and catering specifically to it.

Jackson has languished. Shortly after Fender took over, there was a mass exodus of endorsers who left and a lot of people here raged about it. Nothing much had really been done since. Fender probably kept Jackson from going bankrupt, but if you look at what they've done with Jackson and Charvel in the time they've owned them, it's blatantly obvious that Fender has mis-managed the Charvel and Jackson brand names which were once synonymous with American custom build quality that brands like GMP, Anderson and Suhr, as well as others, still enjoy.

When most of us here were kids, Charvel and Jackson were brand names you aspired to own that were hung highest on the wall, not picked up at the $99 bargain bin section of your local consignment shop.

And while it's nice they offer entry level guitars, the fact that a dealer could now hang a dozen JS series guitars instead of one nice Custom Shop leaves them no desire to order customs for stock, so now kids aren't looking at the stores seeing Jackson as top shelf, they're more interested in getting whatever guitar their favorite artists play and if daddy will spend $1000 in that store for that Ibanez, Fender or whatever, the cheap Jacksons will just sit there while they ring up an LTD or something else.

Of course, a lot of kids here don't remember what Jackson and Charvel were like, only what they're like now.

ESPs are overpriced in general. I've played some of the higher end ESPs and I haven't found them to be better than anything else. As for their Custom Shop models, I've never even seen an ESP Custom Shop model, so I can't comment. The same goes for Jackson. I have played the USA Selects and ESPs in the same price range and I didn't find the ESP to be any better than a Jackson. The attention to detail of my KV2 is great. Everything appears to be well-built and I haven't noticed any quality issues whatsoever. In all fairness, I hadn't seen the ESPs I'd played to be any different in terms of quality.

The whole "Brand X vs. Brand Y vs Brand Z" is a moot point. For every guitarist out there, you'll find a different opinion. Talk to 20 people and they'll tell you 20 different things. Gibson have their nut-huggers, Fender have theirs, etc. All these companies have their rabid following and will refuse to stray, no matter what they've been told or seen.

[xenophobe]

ESPs are overpriced in general. I've played some of the higher end ESPs and I haven't found them to be better than anything else. As for their Custom Shop models, I've never even seen an ESP Custom Shop model, so I can't comment. The same goes for Jackson. I have played the USA Selects and ESPs in the same price range and I didn't find the ESP to be any better than a Jackson. The attention to detail of my KV2 is great. Everything appears to be well-built and I haven't noticed any quality issues whatsoever. In all fairness, I hadn't seen the ESPs I'd played to be any different in terms of quality.

The whole "Brand X vs. Brand Y vs Brand Z" is a moot point. For every guitarist out there, you'll find a different opinion. Talk to 20 people and they'll tell you 20 different things. Gibson have their nut-huggers, Fender have theirs, etc. All these companies have their rabid following and will refuse to stray, no matter what they've been told or seen.

I'm talking about true ESP Customs, not US ordered customs. The Japanese market has far more options than the dumbed down US CS order form and Japanese market guitars are higher quality.


This is a crappy shot of my ESP Strat body. Notice, shielding paint is applied to all the cavities before paint. Every painted surface, including the parts of the trem cavity you don't see has been masked off and is sanded is perfect. Not a single bump, rise, wood splinter, not even buffing compound is to be seen anywhere, even the area where the spring claw sits. There's even a shielded, insulated and shock mounted 9v holder included, and it came with passive pickups. You can't show me a single Charvel, Jackson or Fender with this attention to detail. And one of the things I've always loved about Jackson, the nice fret ends... don't compare with the two ESP real Customs that I own. This is far above and beyond anything Jackson does with their strat bodies...

[Nails In Your Coffin]

I'm talking about true ESP Customs, not US ordered customs. The Japanese market has far more options than the dumbed down US CS order form and Japanese market guitars are higher quality.


This is a crappy shot of my ESP Strat body. Notice, shielding paint is applied to all the cavities before paint. Every painted surface, including the parts of the trem cavity you don't see has been masked off and is sanded is perfect. Not a single bump, rise, wood splinter, not even buffing compound is to be seen anywhere, even the area where the spring claw sits. There's even a shielded, insulated and shock mounted 9v holder included, and it came with passive pickups. You can't show me a single Charvel, Jackson or Fender with this attention to detail. And one of the things I've always loved about Jackson, the nice fret ends... don't compare with the two ESP real Customs that I own. This is far above and beyond anything Jackson does with their strat bodies...

I'm sure that's all stuff you can request on a Jackson Custom Shop model if you want it, but also keep in mind most Jackson Custom Shop models don't reach $8,000 unless it's something VERY special you're looking for. At a price of $8,000, I would expect these types of things. Kind of an apples to oranges comparison when we're talking about guitars that are probably separated in price by $3,000.

As for fret-ends, what makes ESP's so great?

[xenophobe]

I'm sure that's all stuff you can request on a Jackson Custom Shop model if you want it, but also keep in mind most Jackson Custom Shop models don't reach $8,000 unless it's something VERY special you're looking for. At a price of $8,000, I would expect these types of things. Kind of an apples to oranges comparison when we're talking about guitars that are probably separated in price by $3,000.

As for fret-ends, what makes ESP's so great?

I'm 45. I've owned dozens of custom and USA Jacksons as well as a whole slew of other custom shop instruments. I have two orders in the oven, one of them has a retail price close to $10k. The other is something Jackson has never done before, ever. I know exactly what to expect from Jackson CS over the last 20 years and my expectations aren't as high as I would have for an ESP for the same price. I prefer Jackson over ESP, I like the neck profiles, I love the style of fretwork, I love the body shapes... etc.

ESP CS fret ends are done similarly to Ibanez Sugi standard. Fretboards out to the edge of the board without anything to nitpick. CJ used to do really good fret filing, but it's completely different than what ESP or Ibanez would do. Now they're pulling a Fender and cutting fretboard ends just short of the edge because it produces a similar effect with a lot less labor. They don't actually do the filed fretboard rolled edges anymore. If you don't know what I mean when I say that, pick up a late 80's Jackson neck and examine the fretboard between the frets.

What is better about them? Far more meticulous file work. What's wrong with Jackson fret work? Nothing really. I've always loved CJ necks. I like the profiles they do now, but the edges are machine rolled before installation of the frets. They used to roll the edges after they installed the frets... a lot of people didn't like them, but most of us here like those late 80's necks.

As for CS specs, Jackson CS is even more limited than ESP-USA. You actually spec very little, but still, it's the style of work and the design of Jackson that I like more. Jackson CS does great work but it's not up to the nitpick level of ESP Japan. That doesn't bother me because Jackson CS standards are just fine with me. That doesn't mean there isn't better out there...

[xenophobe]

Oh, and if you're looking for a pointy guitar with Jackson USA build quality at 1/3 the price, check out my review of the Marc Rizzo Stealth. The only drawback is that it is far more nose heavy... a Warrior balances nicely when standing, the Stealth with neck dive. They're about the same sitting. I was lucky and bought mine off ebay from Music Farm for $670 shipped. As far as I'm concerned, if it were a brand new USA CS Jackson, I would have been pleased with the purchase. It smokes any USA BC Rich in overall QC, but then again it wouldn't be a Custom BC Rich if it didn't have things you could nitpick about.

http://www.jcfonline.com/threads/134554-BC-Rich-Marc-Rizzo-7-String-Stealth-Review-Made-in-Korea-NGD?

[Nails In Your Coffin]

I'm 45. I've owned dozens of custom and USA Jacksons as well as a whole slew of other custom shop instruments. I have two orders in the oven, one of them has a retail price close to $10k. The other is something Jackson has never done before, ever. I know exactly what to expect from Jackson CS over the last 20 years and my expectations aren't as high as I would have for an ESP for the same price. I prefer Jackson over ESP, I like the neck profiles, I love the style of fretwork, I love the body shapes... etc.

ESP CS fret ends are done similarly to Ibanez Sugi standard. Fretboards out to the edge of the board without anything to nitpick. CJ used to do really good fret filing, but it's completely different than what ESP or Ibanez would do. Now they're pulling a Fender and cutting fretboard ends just short of the edge because it produces a similar effect with a lot less labor. They don't actually do the filed fretboard rolled edges anymore. If you don't know what I mean when I say that, pick up a late 80's Jackson neck and examine the fretboard between the frets.

What is better about them? Far more meticulous file work. What's wrong with Jackson fret work? Nothing really. I've always loved CJ necks. I like the profiles they do now, but the edges are machine rolled before installation of the frets. They used to roll the edges after they installed the frets... a lot of people didn't like them, but most of us here like those late 80's necks.

As for CS specs, Jackson CS is even more limited than ESP-USA. You actually spec very little, but still, it's the style of work and the design of Jackson that I like more. Jackson CS does great work but it's not up to the nitpick level of ESP Japan. That doesn't bother me because Jackson CS standards are just fine with me. That doesn't mean there isn't better out there...

I guess I can't really fault Fender for trying to save money. If the result and quality are nearly the same, does it really matter how they are achieved? Also, if the edges were rolled after the frets were installed and people didn't like it, I can understand why that was changed.

I've never played an 80's Jackson, much less seen one. Back then when I first started playing, Jacksons were the "holy grails." If an artist played Jackson, you knew the guy was awesome. It was sort of like B.C. Rich. Their Custom Shop work spoke for itself and they were impeccable guitars. Nowadays, I have no respect for B.C. Rich or their Custom Shop. It wasn't but maybe three years ago I ran into what USED TO BE my dream guitar, a Custom Shop Warlock. I was so excited, I could have shit my pants. I immediately picked it up, only to notice how poor the fretwork was. The frets looked rusty, didn't shine, and the edges were very sharp. In fact, I'd seen better on $149 B.C. Rich models from their "beginner packs!"

So, lemme tell you all about my "dream guitar."

- sharp fret ends

- the frets had no shine and looked like wire hanger beaten into the neck with a hammer

- EXTREMELY screechy sound

- knobs that literally fell off in my hand

- numerous dead/pinging frets

- pot routings that were oval instead of round, making for wobbly knobs that didn't fit correctly in the body

Well, I was a big B.C. Rich fan until that day, and I've had a very strong disdain for them since. It's clear B.C. Rich is now just another name in cheap-shit guitars, along the same lines as "Rogue."

These days, Neal Moser, who used to do all the classic Custom Shop work for 'Rich has his own business and my next guitar is going to be one of his FastStars. I still have that childhood dream of one day owning a "real" B.C. Rich Custom Shop guitar, and he's the only one I'm going to be able to get it from.

Oh, and if you're looking for a pointy guitar with Jackson USA build quality at 1/3 the price, check out my review of the Marc Rizzo Stealth. The only drawback is that it is far more nose heavy... a Warrior balances nicely when standing, the Stealth with neck dive. They're about the same sitting. I was lucky and bought mine off ebay from Music Farm for $670 shipped. As far as I'm concerned, if it were a brand new USA CS Jackson, I would have been pleased with the purchase. It smokes any USA BC Rich in overall QC, but then again it wouldn't be a Custom BC Rich if it didn't have things you could nitpick about.

http://www.jcfonline.com/threads/134...-in-Korea-NGD?

That is a really cool guitar. I've always liked the Stealth (Thanks, Rick Derringer and Bernie Rico!). As for being nose-heavy, it seems this is a typical problem with 'Rich guitars. I have an 80's Mockingbird and it's so bad I have to play it sitting down. It's pretty difficult to play when you not only have to play, but also hold up a neck.

...And here's the funny thing. I saw the JS Warrior and thought, "Oh yeah, I've seen one of these," yet I had no clue what the thing was even called. All I knew was I really liked that "pointy Jackson guitar."