I need some input from all you guys

[Riffmeister]

I have just recently gotten into a band after waiting about 2 years to actually be able to have a band and to be in a position to play gigs.

My Dilema is the bass player is horrible! He messes up rythms to everything leaves parts out and is just plain sloppy.

The drumer is great and the singer is really good as well as plays some really great rythym guitar and does some leads also.

They are all super cool guys and the bass player is especially cool, I just don't know if I can deal with the bass being like that.

The few parts I showed him how to do, he went and tried to do them right and there are a few things that he plays well though.

So , If you guys were me, What would you do? There hasn't been anyone else calling and answerin my ads in over a year ,so I really have no other option other than to not play.

I just curious what most of you would do.

[Outlander]

Re: I need some input from all you guys

Record one of your rehearsals, a boom box or some simple type of recording will even work.
Get everyone to listen to it. All kinds of things will become apparent to everyone,timing, sloppy notes,tuning,phrasing etc.
This works great there is a chance you wont have to say anything. We are usually our own worst critics. Some one else may say something before you do.
It's amazing the things you hear when your not playing at the same time
Good luck,I've found that dealing with differant personalities in a group is one of the most difficult parts of being in a band. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Newc]

Re: I need some input from all you guys

It could be the guy can't hear what he's playing, or where he's at in the song. Does he stand with his cabinet blasting his legs? If so, his head's too far above the speakers to hear what he's playing, or if he's got his head in a speaker cabinet, he can't hear the guitar or drums to know where he is.
These are some of the problems my old band had when we first hooked up, and we figured out how to solve them. Spot monitors and angled floor monitors help as well, but not everyone has all the right p.a./sound gear to do all that, so I'd suggest you and the bassist moving your cabs further out and towards each other so you both can hear yourselves and each other (especially so he can hear you).

Newc

[Genebaby]

Re: I need some input from all you guys

Yes, recording yourself is great, it's way different listening back to it than it is playing it at the time. Hopefully he and the others will hear some problems, but that's not always the case, I've met some people that just don't have a clue and seem to be happy to play badly.

Definitely stick with it. How long has the guy been playing?

[Steve]

Re: I need some input from all you guys

Originally posted by Rick:
I have just recently gotten into a band after waiting about 2 years to actually be able to have a band and to be in a position to play gigs.

My Dilema is the bass player is horrible! He messes up rythms to everything leaves parts out and is just plain sloppy.

The drumer is great and the singer is really good as well as plays some really great rythym guitar and does some leads also.

They are all super cool guys and the bass player is especially cool, I just don't know if I can deal with the bass being like that.

The few parts I showed him how to do, he went and tried to do them right and there are a few things that he plays well though.

So , If you guys were me, What would you do? There hasn't been anyone else calling and answerin my ads in over a year ,so I really have no other option other than to not play.

I just curious what most of you would do.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">can him he's holding you back ! we are in the process of doing that as well , it gets worse if you do shows with him , or if you got to record the ****ing bass lines when you record a demo Dave and I have done that a 100 bloody times , one to many thats forsure . //Steve

[Riffmeister]

Re: I need some input from all you guys

Well Steve , the problem is that I just joined Their band and they have been playing together for 4 years.

Vic,

He has been playing a long time and he told me he likes to put fills in everywhere to get attention. Well even if he could do everything he's trying to do, there are a lot of songs where they are just using me as the lone guitar player and I feel that he needs to hold more of the song together.

Sometimes the singer won't play guitar on songs cause he can't do both , if there were a second guitar all the time I don't think that it would be as noticable. But when I'm doing the solo to crazy train and it sounds empty cause he's only playing 8th notes instead of 16th notes for the rythym and there is no other guitar or keyboard, it just sounds way too empty for me.

Newc,

I know this guy can hear himself, cause he is super loud. I don't think he plays to the drummer the way he should, and it sound as if he's not in the pocket. The other thing is , he plays everything the hardest way possible as far as fingerings go. Instead of letting open notes ring and filling up things, it seems like everything is Sticatto, with a LOT of space between notes.

I'm going to do as you guys suggest and record a practice. I have decided to go ahead and play with them cause as I said, they are all SUPER cool guys and this is mostly for me to have fun, none of them think that they are going to get a record deal or anything like that so, I may just be whinning a bit too much.

It's just that when I did play before, I ALWAYS had my brother in the band playing bass and that sucker is probabaly the best bass player in this state, as we were doing stuff like YYZ and other Rush stuff to the tee! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] He just doesn't want to play anymore so that was that. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[lerxstcat]

Re: I need some input from all you guys

Yeah, you have to step lightly, Rick, because egos are fragile and he was your ally getting into the band, so he could see your efforts as a double-cross if you don't handle him right. I say ego because he obviously thinks he's badass if he's telling you he likes to do all these fills, yet he can't hold down the rhythm which is the bass player's first job.

The last guys I played with in June booted me because I offered to teach basic theory to the singer so we could discuss notes, beats and tempos, as opposed to "feelings, power, and emptiness", the way he was used to talking. We'd just spent 1-1/2 hours listening and doing trial and error until
we realized he wanted a dual accent on the 6 count of the first chord progression of the song. He also kept coming in on vocals anywhere from 2 to 8 bars after his harmonica intro. Guy was
not bad on the harp or vox, but he didn't have the concept of counting so he'd know when to come in!! So I told him he sounded great, but we could get more done sooner if he learned some basic theory, wich I'd be glad to teach him. That's just extra work for me, though it WOULD make my life easier, but his ego was so bruised that I gave constructive criticism that he had to have me out of there! I also taught the other guitarist sweeps, and he was mad at me because he couldn't do them right away when I showed him how. He didn't want to hear that he'd have to play them many times to get 'em smooth. So their gratitude for me trying to improve them was to can me!

You will get that especially in an area where decent players are scarce. Try to improve things, but just see it as fun!
You're NOT out to get signed, and when you play the solos just envision the song
playing in your head with correct parts.
In time you may gain influence, but right now the guy may just see you as ungrateful that he wanted you in when the drummer was still undecided.

Maybe your brother could tag along with you once and get up to jam a song. The
bass player may just need to be reminded
that there are other bass players out there and that he may want to woodshed a bit.

Anyway, have some fun and make some noise
and as long as YOU sound good when you play out, maybe you'll find something better. Use them to get you out there.
Other bands will realize that if you're better than the other guys, you're open to a better gig.

Just Rock On!

Rich

[Newc]

Re: I need some input from all you guys

Hey Rick, you're not in Tennessee are you? [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
Sounds a LOT like my old singer/guitarist and bassist - the singer could sing and play on some things, but not on all, which left me with 90+% of the guitar work, and the bassist was a shred guitarist on 4 strings, and wanted to play guitar-style patterns on the bass [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
He thought even stuff like AC/DC would be "Country Bass" [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

This guy, his name ain't Marvin is it? [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Newc

[circle of the tyrants]

Re: I need some input from all you guys

Newc,
You're in Tennessee? I'm in Kingsport, about an hour from Knoxville. Where are you located?

[Accept2]

Re: I need some input from all you guys

When was the last time a bad bass player was a problem in metal?......Just look at Slayer. I think to Tom Araya his bass is a stage prop...................

[Newc]

Re: I need some input from all you guys

Circle - I'm in West TN close to Jackson [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Newc

[circle of the tyrants]

Re: I need some input from all you guys

Originally posted by Accept2:
When was the last time a bad bass player was a problem in metal?......Just look at Slayer. I think to Tom Araya his bass is a stage prop...................

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">[img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Slayer is one of my all-time faves, but in their whole discography, there's only about 3 bass lines that are actually audible!

[OnlineStageGear]

Re: I need some input from all you guys

Rick, find out what the band's main priority is. If they are 100% towards getting everything as tight as possible and being the best they can, than you need to aproach the bass player problem lightly. If it is just a bunch or buddies getting together and jamming, then they could care less.

Matt

[straycat]

Re: I need some input from all you guys

Jackson and Kingsport two great towns been to both many times (truck driver)I've heard some good bands in both towns too.I'm from Lexington Ky just up 25-E and I-75.Every body seems to rag on bass players but his problem seems to be an ego thang!

[joshcrawford]

Re: I need some input from all you guys

How does the rest of the band feel about it? I wouldn't approach him about this alone... might as well paint a target on your back. If the rest of the gang thinks he is slacking... get rid of him if he doesn't attempt to improve. Hell,.. let the singer play bass!
If you ask me... you can be Rhodes on the guitar but if you have beavis or butthead on the bass, your band is going to suck! MUST BE TIGHT!

Good luck!