Bad news guys

[Thoraby]

Re: Bad news guys

Bad news indeed.. But at this point we can do NOTHING but speculate. And speculating ain't worth ****! Let's just wait and see what happens.

And let's hope that Jackson won't see the same fate as Kramer did [img]graemlins/puke.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[xenophobe]

Re: Bad news guys

Originally posted by shreddermon:
Xeno: I doubt they have plans to do less with Dan Lawrence. As already mentioned, the difference is only about 20 miles. Besides, they profiled him in the new catalog.

Possible side benefit: walk over to the Fender side of the building, and pick up a few stratheaded neck blanks. Bring `em back to the J/C side, and shape and finish `em to Charvel specs. Whalla! [img]graemlins/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As for the Dan Lawrence thing, yeah, I did the mapquest to find out the distance, so they might still use him.

Then it wouldn't be a J/C strathead anymore, it would be a j/c logo'd fender neck. J/C strathead blanks are different from the Fender ones.

I think it's gonna be a good thing for quality, as the Fender CS does put out really nice work, but I'm willing to bet that Mike Shannon will not be doing just Jacksons.

[Evol]

Re: Bad news guys

Originally posted by jsullysix:
well, that and the fact that 1600+ screw counting freaks are not going to influence major business decisions. we're a SMALL population kids. what we think matters very little; i don't mean that as a shot, just realistic perspective.

sully [/QB]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">screw counting freaks !!! [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Absolutely 100% dead on though,why would a large company try to appease the minority of their (most picky)customers and LOSE money in the process?? That would be dumb business,especially if they own their own buildings.Hell,that's a no-brainer!
Try this one on for size:

I moved my toaster with me when I moved from Texas to L.A.,now,1500 miles or so later this same toaster with the same bread tastes exactly the same! Whoa big surprise eh? If my toaster suddenly started messing up my toast I would go and get a different one but not until that happens since I like my toast now.

The moral? Unless you start seeing a charvel/jackson toast-o-caster what's the problem?The general guitar buying public didn't cause riots when Jackson were made in India,they bought them regardless!

Stop counting screws! [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[shreddermon]

Re: Bad news guys

Originally posted by xenophobe:
Then it wouldn't be a J/C strathead anymore, it would be a j/c logo'd fender neck. J/C strathead blanks are different from the Fender ones.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">[img]graemlins/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] + [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] = I was joking. Just attempting to poke fun at the strathead thing again. Perhaps not successfully. [img]graemlins/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

However, the more I think about it, the Corona / Corona idea would be sweet. No joke there. It'd have to be a strathead, of course. Maybe I'll place the order myself. ...After I drink NINE CORONAS!!! (Dumdum, dumdum, dumpt dumpt.) [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[Firebird V]

Re: Bad news guys

Did somebody say Corona? Oh! Time for Liquid Lunch! Buuuuuuuuurp!

[MirandaM]

Re: Bad news guys

I drive by the fender facility everyday and it is absolutely emense! There will be plenty of room for Jackson guitars to be made and made well. Sounds to me like fender is trying to best use the space it has and consolodate alot of its operation in one area that is a good thing.

[RacerX]

Re: Bad news guys

immense
consolidate

[img]graemlins/poke.gif[/img]

[cryoprison]

Re: Bad news guys

cryoprison sells pictures?...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">not that i know of? in fact, i don't even have pictures of any bands really. not sure what you're gettin' at though... [img]graemlins/brow.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img]

[Black Mariah]

Re: Bad news guys

Originally posted by Genebaby:
One thing that annoys me about NAMM, other than I'll probably never go, sniff, sniff...is that manufacturers take a lot of time out 'gearing up' for NAMM each year...and this is twice a year...every few months there's a 'hang on, give us time, we're getting ready for NAMM', which is mainly just to show off to other manufactureres, while the orders of the common guy get pushed back a bit to accomodate...imagine if there was a US election every 6 months....even less would get done as the Pres would be forever on the campaign trail.... [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Just my take on it...they should let Joe Public in, like the big Motor Shows and similar...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can tell you this is utter crap. I had to manage about 30 guitars for NAMM in between getting all the regular orders out. It's probably a bit easier on the custom shop since they have more people to throw at NAMM for one thing and pretty much everything they send out is NAMM-worthy already. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] They don't have to deal with Indian guitars either. [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] NAMM preparation doesn't take up as much time as you'd think.

BTW, I like the "ballsniffer" addition. Think about the application for trolls. Just throw a nice big "BALLSNIFFER" under their name instead of banning them. [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Black Mariah]

Re: Bad news guys

Oh yeah, the move. Who didn't see this coming?

Whoever said they could see the production dropping and price going up needs a smack upside the head. You could easily double the price of a USA Jackson but you'd also more than halve your potential buyers. It's better to deal in volume. I don't doubt that special models, such as the 25th Anniversary Charvel, will go up in price, but those are limited editions. Any increase in custom prices will probably follow the same increases that have happened in the past.

[Newc]

Re: Bad news guys

And as I calm down more each day and think about it in rational business terms, I have to agree that mmoving from a rental unit to an owned unit should be more cost-effective, but then there's the eventuality that as a renter you don't pay the land tax like the owner does, so only the numbers tell the true pros and cons of that arrangement.
As far as not "alerting the JCF" about it, I simply don't like surprises. It would have been perfectly fine to clue us in, as we are THE Jackson/Charvel Forum, not just "yet another guitar forum". While I'm not suggesting we should have had a vote in the decision, I am slightly offended the information was posted on the FDP for 2 months but not here til a couple of days ago. This is information hoarding and I cannot find a legitimate reason to keep things like this a secret. It's not like we're stockholders who'll sell off and bring down the company or investors who'll pull funding. Yeah we might not agree with certain decisions and we'll rant about it, but we're not leaving the brand we love.
Yes I understand the focus was more on the actual logistics and ensuring a smooth transition, but you DO have the official Jackson/Charvel website at www.jacksonguitars.com , and it cannot be difficult to add that to the News section of a site many of us do frequent.

Sorry for being picky, but that's what Jackson means to me.

Newc

[Black Mariah]

Re: Bad news guys

You ever think that maybe they're all sick of the display of childish b1tchiness that goes on here every time they do a damn thing, and quite possibly don't want to put up with it anymore, and more than likely didn't feel it neccesary to even mention that they were moving production about TEN DAMN MILES? Yeah, I know I don't know what I'm talking about and don't know what Fender was thinking and other BS that's thrown at me when I make statements like this.

They're keeping the same people. They're making the same guitars, to the same specs. Only now it will be a few miles from where they currently do it. Only on this forum would something so incredibly unimportant become a big thing.

[Hyperfuzz]

Re: Bad news guys

Actually, over the past few months I've acquired a couple of Guild acoustics, one 6 string, one 12 string that were made in Corona. I gotta admit they are pretty bad-a$$. I plan on keeping these.

[Greg Crowe]

Re: Bad news guys

My turn [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] ...............

Mixed feelings on this one but as someone with a business background(Business Administration and Accounting degree), I do understand the "whys" of the move. The Ontario facility was located in an industrial park area right next to the Ontario, CA airport(made it really nice to fly in and drop by). That industrial park area is all a bunch of look-alike buildings leased out to renters. What do you suppose real estate like that in CALIFORNIA leases out for? ........ big bucks! If you've got a paid-for monsterous facility just 12 miles down the road in Corona, of course it makes perfect business sense to move the Custom Shop to Corona.

I keep reading "Tim and Mike will still be building the guitars". People, Tim doesn't work on the guitars, he managed the shop. Tim Wilson does not cut the wood, shape the neck, do fretwork or polish your new Jackson guitar. At the risk of throwing political correctness out the window and reiterating what Newc said earlier.... Jackson USA guitars are now 95% built by Mexicans in the USA with a guy named Greg doing the final setup. This is not highly unlike what is done by Fender in the Corona shop.

What concerns me is not that the shop is physically moving from Ontario to Corona but what will happen with the way the guitars will be built and with quality control. Morgan plainly told us that some machinery and tooling will make the move, some won't. What we see happening is that your beloved Custom Shop handmade guitars are becoming less and less "handmade" every day. It's business and bean counting folks. These guitars are becoming a product of a bunch of CNC machines. That is what truly bothers me and makes me sad. Have you guys seen any of the old San Dimas Custom Shop pics/tour that was on Rob Lane's old site? If that stuff is still out there, go check it out. Gone are the old days of hand cutting a body out using and original 80's template. Production is being "modernized" at the loss of old-style hand craftmanship. Sad yes but this is what keeps your SL-1 Soloist at $1300 out the door instead of $2500.

Final point and the one that really concerns me. Have you people gone to your local guitar stores and checked out the new USA Fender guitars? Go take a look and report back here. I'm sorry but those things are nowhere near up to what we expect for "Jackson Custom Shop quality". Check out the frets and the fretwork. Check out the jagged fret ends that you could cut your hands on. Check out the cheap materials and overuse of plastic. Pete/Oklastrat/Twisteramps and I were at a local guitar store not too long ago just rolling on the floor dying after pointing out flaw after flaw on the new Fender USA's they had.

It's the end of an era folks. You just can't be cost competitive completely hand building guitars in California in a leased warehouse. What we really need to be watching out for is quality in build, quality in materials, quality in fretwork and quality in setup. If the same production philosophy and cost criteria is used on Jackson's that is used on USA Fender's, we're in big trouble. Time will tell.

I'm also a bit disturbed that the Fender BigWhigs all kept telling us "there are no plans to move the Jackson custom shop away from Ontario and to Corona". We heard that again and again. That was complete BS. From a business sense, it made perfect sense and I'm sure was idea #1 from the very beginning.

[sully]

Re: Bad news guys

agree on many points, greg, i just have a couple of observations... one being that i don't believe that people were still cutting bodies by hand before the buyout, were they? i don't think that's a fender thing, but more wood for the "they don't make em like they used to" argument that comes up with many things as technology advances. to clarify a bit more, i don't think that the buyout completely changed the way guitars were actually being made. please know that i'm not arguing with you at all, here, and if you know something i don't, lemme know.

the other point that i do completely agree with you on is the fender c/s work. after the buyout, i made it a point to play many of the high end teles and strats that they had at a local GC. yes, the fact that gc was involved in this experiment will add a few negative points, but i kept a very open mind in what i played. i took into consideration that the neck profile isn't my bag, and i'm not a fan of narrow frets. however, a great guitar, regardless of those facts, is still a great guitar.

the finishes of the guitars that i played were fine, but just they didn't feel like 2300.00 guitars to me. yes to the rough fret edges for sure. and granted, they'd play much better with a good setup, (and i kept that in mind) but they just didn't feel like a solid guitar, if that makes sense. i called pete on my way home from the gc, and we agreed that they were nice $800.00 guitars, but that's about it.

sully

[ September 17, 2003, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: jsullysix ]