Do Fender really want to kill off Jackson?

[Mudlark]

Thanks, Newc. I have a facebook friend in Bangladesh that's been trying to get me to send him a Jackson because he was unable to find one locally. Fortunately, he found one, but I was curious as to what it would cost if I did decide to help him out.

[lefty]

If Fender had any brains, they would re-release the Charvel Model Series, made at their best import plant. They would need to be super high quality like the originals. I mean seriously Fender, those 1986-1988 Model Series guitar sold by the millions ! You can't go into a pawn shop today without seeing 1 or 2. They are still loved and highly regarded. Get rid of the Desolation garbage and build some quality Model Series guitars.

Yep, build the Model Series in the Mexican plant. They can build high quality guitars there.
My MiM Deluxe Player's Strat stands tall against US-built Strats. Model Series is a great design
that's stood the test of time. No-Brainer...

[shreddermon]

No offense guys, but isn't it obvious that those bases are already being covered by the current imports? MIM Charvel Pro Mods, Jackson imports? Wouldn't a new "Model Series"-based line just be largely duplicative? I know many folks think back on those guitars with warm nostalgia but a) it's already happening without the pointy headstocks and b) Charvels looking like Jacksons (sharkfins, bound necks, neck-throughs) would just muddy the waters between the two brands.

[Flatpicker]

No offense guys, but isn't it obvious that those bases are already being covered by the current imports? MIM Charvel Pro Mods, Jackson imports? Wouldn't a new "Model Series"-based line just be largely duplicative? I know many folks think back on those guitars with warm nostalgia but a) it's already happening without the pointy headstocks and b) Charvels looking like Jacksons (sharkfins, bound necks, neck-throughs) would just muddy the waters between the two brands.

Remember how when Charvel only came with pointy HS, there were people complaining they wanted Strat HS, now it's the other way around.

People are never satisfied.

The Charvel MIC's are gone. The MIM's are very good. Pretty much Model series quality.
Jackson's MIM's are too.

The CS still exists and the Custom Selects have narrowed down the wait times.

The product is there, it's just not selling like gangbusters.
I still think they are in a better place than they were under Akai.

[veemagic]

Remember how when Charvel only came with pointy HS, there were people complaining they wanted Strat HS, now it's the other way around.

People are never satisfied.

The Charvel MIC's are gone. The MIM's are very good. Pretty much Model series quality.
Jackson's MIM's are too.

The CS still exists and the Custom Selects have narrowed down the wait times.

The product is there, it's just not selling like gangbusters.
I still think they are in a better place than they were under Akai.

Well said. Fact is Fender doesn't want to "kill" off anything. They would however sell anything they can to make more profit than they currently are, if they could. The question is, is that an option for them? Doubtful. My guess is that they value Jackson pretty high, and Jacksons overhead to them is relatively low. Unless a buyer had to have Jackson, and would pay Fenders idea of value, why would Fender ever dump them?

[shreddermon]

Not to mention the fact that J/C's USA production staff, methods, machinery, and co-location are all integrated within Fender's at the Corona facility. So, even if they were sold, how the heck could you "divorce" that in any reasonable fashion? Basically, you couldn't. I know I'm over-simplifying there, but the point is that, effectively, the new owner would simply be buying the names of the brands and the looks of the designs. There's a heck of a lot less value in that than in a fully-integrated production shop, staff, etc.

And, oh by the way, let's just talk about the Charvel brand for a minute. If they were sold off, do you think FMIC is going to include the licensing of the strathead design to the new owners? I mean, sure, FMIC allows licensing to aftermarket parts suppliers. But they have completely drawn a line in the sand against letting competing manufacturers use that design. And, let's face it, the Charvel brand is now equated with the strathead. When is the last time you even saw a new Charvel pointy head? It might still be available on a custom order, but no-one is even ordering them. So there is even less value in selling off a Charvel brand that would only be permitted to do pointy heads. And, cough Desolation cough, import pointy heads have also proven to have limited appeal and sales potential.

Bottom line: whether they intended to or not, FMIC made a sale of the J/C brands less likely and less attractive to potential suitors. And the flipside is that J/C is better off under FMIC's ownership. Heck, the Charvel brand would likely still be deader than a door nail without FMIC and the strathead resurgence it alone enabled. Don't get me wrong, there is a whole host of things that I consider FMIC to be dropping the ball on, that I would prefer they do differently, that they should do much better than they are. But, on balance and in the whole, J/C is better with them than without. And, for the most part, the conjecture about FMIC selling J/C for some people is more about silly wishful thinking than based in reality.

(And when they're sold next week, I'll be proven wrong. LOL)

[veemagic]

Exactly

[neilli]

+1 Totally agree Pat..

[MikeStrat]

I'm ready to buy Charvel and move to CA. Who's in with me? Any guesses how much it would be to buy the Charvel brand?

[Force]

I'm ready to buy Charvel and move to CA. Who's in with me? Any guesses how much it would be to buy the Charvel brand?

Probably a little more than the cost to repair a 23 fret Kelly but considerably less than a Model 6 from AlienXnation

[Flatpicker]

I'm ready to buy Charvel and move to CA. Who's in with me? Any guesses how much it would be to buy the Charvel brand?

Suhr sold for $11M.
I figure they moved less product than Charvel, so I could see it easily going for 2x that amount.

Plus you would lose the factory and the rights to do Strat Heads.
But, you could gain the ability to bring back the dropped models. (roundhorns etc)

[Rich#6]

This rumor shit is probably coming from the sale of Kaman and it's parent company to JAM Industries back in February. Since Kaman was who was making the desolation guitars and probably the chinese jacksons I can see where a rumor would start.

[neilli]

But, you could gain the ability to bring back the dropped models. (roundhorns etc)

But, as often mentioned, those were never big sellers - the reason they are rare (and therefore 'cool and desirable') is that very few people actually spent their money to order them when they were available. So while from a customer's standpoint, it'd be great to have the option, it's not gonna be a big profit maker for any new owner..

[shreddermon]

Yep, exactly. Would be great to have them again, but they ain't gonna sell very much.

[xenophobe]

Charvel won't be sold. It took Fender a good while and some trial and error, but they realized the potential of Charvel very well. I'd have to give them a B+ or possibly even an A if you consider that they'll probably be consistent like FMIC always is, so the road that branding is going down looks great.

Jackson.. yeah, it would be difficult for Fender to sell off the brand due to their integration at Corona. If they sold it, there's not really a full company there to support all the operations and who knows how much shared or FMIC specific property is lent or leased to Jackson. But they could sell it and someone else could create a new company around the IP... could probably fit all the cnc programs on a couple of DVDs, and off you go. lol

But yeah, while FMIC has done great for Charvel, Jackson hasn't done so well on so many levels. Yeah, Jackson is still here with us, but it really looks like all they care about is the backlog of cusoms and running custom selects. The imports are hardly seen at any shop except for the beginner level guitars in the used junkpile. Jackson exists despite FMICs horrible mismanagement of Jackson.