Negotiating prices on new guitars

[Temple of Doom]

Is this looked down upon? There is a new Jackson USA Select SL1 that I've been eyeing up at my local guitar shop, and it's priced at 2499. I'd like to get the cost down a little bit, maybe like 10-20%, is this even a possibility? Or will they laugh at me?

[pianoguyy]

That depends on the shop.
Some places put THE PRICE on the items.
Some places put A PRICE on the items.

I've seen signs that specifically say "I will be glad to mark the prices up 30% so that I can give you a 10% discount."


That price is a fair market price for the unit. If you can't afford it, why not buy an SL2?

[Temple of Doom]

Yeah, I knew it was probably a long shot. I never played an SL2, but looking at them online they look like they have very similar specs. But it looks like they're just as much money.

And you saw a sign that really said that? Lol

[xenophobe]

You can always ask. The worst they can say is "no, get out".

[Tetsuo]

That depends on the shop.
Some places put THE PRICE on the items.
Some places put A PRICE on the items.

I've seen signs that specifically say "I will be glad to mark the prices up 30% so that I can give you a 10% discount."


That price is a fair market price for the unit. If you can't afford it, why not buy an SL2?

Agreed and just be cool about it you can always ask. With anything from FMIC though there isn't that much room they give the dealers, guitar center gets rebates but your average dealer doesn't. Even with GC they are not supposed to dig into rebates for pricing. I am not sure it is 100% the same for Jackson but that is the space with fender. You can usually negotiate an out the door price where the dealer discounts the tax. If it is a small shop that services you well though let them make a couple bucks so they can stay open. That's my thinking anyway.

[Vass]

Any place that doesn't entertain offers should call themselves collectors or museums. Getting butthurt about it would just show that they're lousy business people. Every offer is just a start to a negotiation, and there's a chance that they are going to hit your asking price anyway but want to see if they can get it for less- which just fine.

Some companies, like Tiffany, don't do sales or take offers (allegedly). That's their brand. Anyone stupid enough to pay them more than they want just because of that get what they deserve.

SL1 for $2500 is ridiculous. I got a brand new SL1 for less than half that. Now granted I didn't negotiate on that one, but they can be had for much cheaper.

Isn't $2500 MSRP for an SL1? Nobody pays that, do they?

[neilli]

+1. I know what dealers pay for stock and that's before any bulk order discount. 2500 gives them a lot of room to play with. At the same time, the store is there to make a profit, not give out guitars at cost, and there's something to be said for being able to play the guitar / check it out in person rather than ordering it from a 'box store' and finding it has issues, needs a setup or whatever.

If you're on that much of a budget though, just buy a used one. From checking out ebay, they can be had for a grand..

[Vass]

+1. I know what dealers pay for stock and that's before any bulk order discount. 2500 gives them a lot of room to play with. At the same time, the store is there to make a profit, not give out guitars at cost, and there's something to be said for being able to play the guitar / check it out in person rather than ordering it from a 'box store' and finding it has issues, needs a setup or whatever.

If you're on that much of a budget though, just buy a used one. From checking out ebay, they can be had for a grand..

Yep. Smart dealers know that tying money up in inventory is dumb. For mass produced items (and SL1 is that) it's all about volume. Leaving $1500 or whatever cost is sitting on a wall getting dusty and maybe dinged is a terrible idea. Sell 3 at a $300 profit each rather than one at a $600 rip.

I think about opening a guitar store when I retire but I have no illusions- I'd end up eating all the cooking, so to speak, and it would be just a money losing hobby. And maybe that's ok! It certainly is now.

Do instrument stores actually lay out the cash for the stock or do they finance it? Locking up $30,000 to throw a couple dozen guitars on the wall seems like a tough proposition for a smaller business. It's not a crazy amount of money but it's a crazy amount to leave sitting there not earning anything till it moves.

[Temple of Doom]

I actually may end up getting a used one that's a little more affordable for me. I found a used SL2 in great shape for $1800. I haven't played the SL2, but I would imagine it's very similar to the SL1? And is that a good deal?

[neilli]

Do you really mean an SL2, or an SL2H? The standard SL2H is the same an SL1, with the only change being the pickup config. The SL2 was a mid 90s model which had a downgraded hardware and pickups, plus no neck binding (and most had no inlays).

[neilli]

Do instrument stores actually lay out the cash for the stock or do they finance it?

Depends on the store - some deal with lines of credit which can cause problems (customer orders sitting in warehouses until outstanding accounts are settled etc), some deal with the manufacturers in cash. I'm told the cash dealers get preferential rates / more leverage but that might just be hearsay.

[pianoguyy]

At the store, guitars are priced as is. But, it is a piano store. Guitars are more like accessories, lol.
We don't discount the price, per se. We will give discounts on accessories, like cases, if bought when you buy the instrument. And we will round a final price to something that is easy for a cash buyer --- like $1015 can become an even $1000.
Pianos and Organs can be haggled, especially since we take trades. And credit card fees on a $100k piece --- why not offer the discount to cash buyers. If a buyer finances through our finance company, we make a portion of the interest, so why not discount that as well. But our guitars are the price you see on the tag.


The Jackson SL1 and SL2H (same guitar with different pickup configs) have an MSRP of $4k. You buy them at places like Guitar Center and Sweetwater for $2500-3000.
The SL2 is an import. They can be bought for under a grand.


Most mom-and-pop shops need every penny to survive. They also know that they need to price compete against the big box entities, so they often keep prices as low as possible without making it foolish to bother carrying a product. However, if you think about it, you often get better service at the little shops - which includes buying guitars that are gig-ready instead of needing a fret job and setup before you can take it home. Guitar shop owners tend to be 'mod shops' more than retail salesmen, so of course you find guitars hotrodded to hell before you even buy it.
Pay for that service.

[pianoguyy]

Do instrument stores actually lay out the cash for the stock or do they finance it?

Some do. Some don't.
This one guy has often told me, "I am not working to fund a bank. I own every piece in here." Another guy says "that's business stuff, talk to the bookkeeper on that one. I just tell her what gear I want and it appears."
The piano store uses a 'floor plan' service for our instruments, paying interest only. And when an item gets sold, we pay it off in full.
Guitars and accessories are paid in full up front.
The sheet music comes from two companies. One company makes us buy it up front. One company puts the music on consignment with us - they send us whatever they want and we send them their money as we sell it (less our fee).
Because we use a service to buy gear, we can special order whenever we want. Which is different than getting a line of credit direct from a manufacturer, because once that credit is used up, they aren't letting you buy more gear until you pay down your debt - which means a customer waits.

Also, lines of credit direct from the manufacturer are a rarity anymore. You have to have a very good, long standing, relationship with a manufacturer. Since the banking crisis and the Obama takeover, the small business finance world is in shambles, hurting the American economy in the process. Can't buy a product to sell unless it is with cash, can't sell the product you buy unless it is with cash. So, you can't get it in the door, and once in the door you can't get it out the door.

And then the government buys a $300,000 piano to put in the US Embassy in Mozambique Africa.

[Nightbat]

I know the fucks in this area of the world wouldn't negotiate on shit

Imagine a few years back (roughly 1998/99) finding a used Ibanez RG770DX with the painted inlays worn bare, some dings and scratches here and there, definitely well played

-"I'm offering 2/3rds of that price"

"No, can't do that..."

-"Why not? Look at it!"

"That was a pretty expensive guitar when it was new"

-"Perhaps when new, but not in the condition it is now!"

"Still, can't lower the price for you"

-"Because...?"

"The previous owner traded it in for an expensive guitar"

-"And that's influencing your pricing? Smart move, good luck with it"

[neilli]

It comes down to this: the price has to work for both the buyer and the seller.

If it's priced too high for the customer to buy, then move on - unless it's something totally unique, you'll find another or at least an approximate. If the buyer is offering too little, likewise the seller will decide to hang onto it as a dust collector. And potentially more fool them. But perhaps it's a good 'window shopping' instrument that drags people in, or whatever.

It's not a new kidney - this stuff can wait, and if a store won't negotiate, then that's their loss and I'll shake my head and move on.