Why are non-recessed OFRs not more available? (Jackson/Charvel or other makers)

[toejam]

Hard tail guitars also have an angled neck as far as I know.

I've always had recessed FR guitars until I got the SL2HT...it didn't bother me at all getting used to it, I really don't tell the difference in my playing position between the two construction styles.

Actual "hard tail" bridge guitars don't have angled necks. The bridge is down on the body, similar to how a recessed trem would be. Look at any Fender with a trem or hard tail... no neck angle.

A Jackson SL2HT has a tune-o-matic bridge, and does have an angled neck (similar to a Les Paul with its TOM bridge higher off the body), but it's not considered an actual hard tail. Just because a guitar has a fixed bridge, does not mean it's an actual hard tail.

[lepard]

I'm a huge fan of top mounted Floyds. Not sure why but I always find my playing to be better on non-recessed Floyd guitars.

As to why they are not offered, I think it's a complete misunderstanding of the concept by todays generation of guitar players. Dean came out with the ultimate redesigned ML(by Buddy Blaze) with a revised neck angle, top-mount(non-recessed) Floyd and 24 frets and it went over like a fart in church. Kids just didn't understand the benefits of the top mount Floyd. Those guitars didn't sell. I actually have 2 of them and absolutely love them ! Nobody else did.

[Axewielder]

As to why they are not offered, I think it's a complete misunderstanding of the concept by todays generation of guitar players. Dean came out with the ultimate redesigned ML(by Buddy Blaze) with a revised neck angle, top-mount(non-recessed) Floyd and 24 frets and it went over like a fart in church.

Here's a cool video on that:

EDIT: Not a fan of the middle pickup, but otherwise I like the design of it. One of the advantages of a 1H or H-H NR trem guitar is you can really "dig in" on the strings. On a recessed trem guitar, my pick sort of goes tap-tap-tap on the face of the guitar body. But with that stupid pickup right there, you lose that advantage.

[vector]

Here's a cool video on that:

EDIT: Not a fan of the middle pickup, but otherwise I like the design of it. One of the advantages of a 1H or H-H NR trem guitar is you can really "dig in" on the strings. On a recessed trem guitar, my pick sort of goes tap-tap-tap on the face of the guitar body. But with that stupid pickup right there, you lose that advantage.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of a middle p'up either. That's a shame because outside of that and the 24.75" scale, I'd be tempted to try one. Kudos to Buddy for insisting on a proper OFR. Surprising, given it's $700 price tag.

On the issue of recessed vs. non rec. I firmly believe it boils down to what you are most used to. Point of fact- in reference to the pick depth and hitting the body- I'm guessing you play primarily NR Floyds, or at least did so initially. That set a muscle memory precedent and forged a preference which IMO is the root of most choices re: RF or NR.

Opening up one's mind to other options/possibilities becomes more difficult the longer a habit is in place. For years, I played top mounted Floyds on a Charvel 3, several Kramers, a BC Rich ST III and my main, go-to modded '76 Fender which had, essentially, a top mounted OFR with an enlarged rout for pull up. Had no issues with switching to recessed on a RG550 once Mr. Vai proffered the Word of Recessed. Perhaps my mania for trying (futilely) to be like Vai overrode my motor skill baseline with top mounted OFRs. Either way, I am reasonably comfy on both Rec. and NR Floyds but prefer the string height of the recessed.

[JCB RR1]

Actual "hard tail" bridge guitars don't have angled necks. The bridge is down on the body, similar to how a recessed trem would be. Look at any Fender with a trem or hard tail... no neck angle.

A Jackson SL2HT has a tune-o-matic bridge, and does have an angled neck (similar to a Les Paul with its TOM bridge higher off the body), but it's not considered an actual hard tail. Just because a guitar has a fixed bridge, does not mean it's an actual hard tail.

Yeah Toe, you're right, I used the term "hard tail" thinking about the TOM bridge, I missed the right concept by a few miles...And now that you mentioned it, my very first guitar, a Mex' Strat, had no angle between the neck and the body. I tried really hard to forget about that guitar, now I have to do it all over again...

My point was that since the guitars with TOM bridges share the angled neck with NR FR guitars, they partially fill the requirements for an inexpensive buy, which was Number of the Priest's main concern. I know a SLXTQ would do without a FR, but at least the strat, affordable, 2 HUM, angled neck part of the request would have been fulfilled.

Just saying, there are alternatives.

[toejam]

My point was that since the guitars with TOM bridges share the angled neck with NR FR guitars, they partially fill the requirements for an inexpensive buy, which was Number of the Priest's main concern. I know a SLXTQ would do without a FR, but at least the strat, affordable, 2 HUM, angled neck part of the request would have been fulfilled.

Just saying, there are alternatives.

That's true. Also, there are other guitar makers, like Carvin, for instance, that don't have a neck angle and keep all of their bridges, even a TOM, closer to the body. But Jacksons and Charvels with the TOM do indeed have a tilted neck angle and bridge higher off the body.

[Catharpin]

I snapped an like for like Soloist comparison.
With recess the base plate and strings should parallel the body and the neck.
With top mount (non recess) the base plate and strings should parallel the neck only.

[lepard]

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of a middle p'up either. That's a shame because outside of that and the 24.75" scale, I'd be tempted to try one. Kudos to Buddy for insisting on a proper OFR. Surprising, given it's $700 price tag.

These guitars were so misunderstood. I saw all kinds of kids posting on the Dean Forum asking stupid questions and just not getting the concept of a top mounted Floyd. Notice in that NAMM 2009 video that Elliott said the Blaze ML was just the 1st of more guitars to come from a collaboration with Buddy Blaze. The Blaze ML was a complete flop and they never did another guitar together. Those Blaze ML's come with a case and special certificate signed by both Buddy and Elliott. That special Blazebucker pickup is amazing. It's the perfect hot pickup that is not too over the top hot(like an X2N or Invader) and perfectly balanced. These Blaze ML's go dirt cheap on eBay. I highly recommend picking one up when they can be had on the cheap. They are great, great guitars.

[Number Of The Priest]

Catharpin posted that great comparison pic two posts above. What affordable, "mass-produced" guitars (from any manufacturer) have that angled neck and 42mm-block non-recessed Floyd? Les Pauls have that angle too, but not commonly equipped with a Floyd. I tried to do a Google search for such a list of mass-market guitars but to no avail.

Here is what I have so far:
- Jackson SHS1 Shannon Soloist
- Dean Blaze ML

This can't be that difficult. But it is.

Christ, I'd pick up another one of those 1998 Shannon Soloists if I could find another in mint condition for the same USD$850 I paid for mine back in 2004. If I designed my own artist signature model, I'd pretty much use it as a template, but make it a 2-hum version, with a deeper neck heel cut for better high fret access, and without binding nibs because sometimes I end up fretting out on the binding when doing very wide vibrato. Basically a normal SL2H with a non-recessed Floyd perched way up high on the guitar body.

[BayRocker]

Catharpin posted that great comparison pic two posts above. What affordable, "mass-produced" guitars (from any manufacturer) have that angled neck and 42mm-block non-recessed Floyd?

Any of the Floyded Model series Charvels. This is why my M4 is my favorite to play, top mounted Floyd, angled neck...

[BayRocker]

I believe all of the Charvel Pro-mods up until recently are also set up that way.

[neilli]

As is the Adrian Smith Jackson. Maybe the Warren D Charvel too, but I'm not sure if that floats?

[mantis]

I snapped an like for like Soloist comparison.
With recess the base plate and strings should parallel the body and the neck.
With top mount (non recess) the base plate and strings should parallel the neck only.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]8732[/ATTACH]

That pic shows exactly why I prefer the Recessed vs the Top Mount. I love the lower feel.

[Number Of The Priest]

What affordable, "mass-produced" guitars (from any manufacturer) have that angled neck and 42mm-block non-recessed Floyd?

Found some more on the current Kramer website. The Pacer (all variants), Baretta Vintage, and The '84 all have non-recessed Floyds, but I'm not entirely certain if they float above the body high enough to warrant the neck angle and 42mm sustain block.

[j2379]

you waste more wood w a non recessed especially when making true neck thrus. the angle means you need a thicker piece of wood. Granted w a scarf joint i don't think it makes as much of a difference. I prefer non recessed, just what i learned on old school non recessed floyds and TOM type bridges. hardtails, recessed floyds and some kahlers, & Vtrems the strings are so close to the body it just doesn't feel right to me.