With much trepidation. . .

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

based on what you posted and not hearing the other parties take on it I'd tell him to kiss you're ass and/or fukk off and die. It sounds like the condition was described correctly. If anything was hidden and not disclosed then he nay have a case

[lerxstcat]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

I think its quicksand for the board to attempt mediating Classifieds disputes. It is a thankless waste of time for all involved. I say let the Classifieds run as a flea market, unimpeded, or shut it down (NOT that I want that).

Eventually someone would be unhappy with a decision, and try to hold the admins responsible in an exterior setting, small claims court most likely. For all authority claimed is a degree of responsibility assumed, and it's not in the interest of the JCF to take that on.

Use your head; don't buy from a guy who just joined the board, and assume that there is a no-return policy unless you have one agreed upon with SPECIFIC TERMS IN WRITING before you buy! I think the current plaintiff, Mulder, would lose in small-claims court. If the visible route is acceptable to the reasonable person,
then he with unreasonable expectations can not expect the court to remedy his complaint.

Now the Accusational folder I favor.
Bad deals can be outed, we all read the dirty details and make up our own minds

[ October 15, 2003, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: lerxstcat ]

[Jim Shine]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

I just read the original ad. It appears that you gave a very thorough description. Perhaps it is a case of buyers remorse?

[charvel pointy head]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

That's what I don't want to do though. I mean, I don't want to be uncool. I made him an offer of $100 and he could either give me back the pickup, an Anderson H2+ or he could give me the body which he claims is only worth $100. Now I'm supposed to come up w/ the whole amount and get the guitar back? Then go thru the hassle of trying to sell again or part out and ebay? Like I said, and I think some others will confirm, the guitar is as described, but I also don't think this individual really knows what an added floyd looks like to a vintage trem body. I'
ve got a pic of the so called route if anyone wants to see it. It's rectangular, its a little wider front to back than a standard floyd route (that's from top to bottom if you have the body on a guitar stand for perspective) and it hangs below the plate by the handle mount. But my brand new GMW does as well, it's just not rectangular. Note that the gmw is Originally a floyd, not a 20 year old guitar routed for a floyd 20 years ago. It sounds like most folks support me. Again, if i'd advertised this as some complete, unmodified original Sandimas strathead or something and got 2500 for it, I'd be in a different state of mind, but then again, I wouldn't have sold one of those for a gmw now would I. I'm curious who it was that had a bad deal w/ me before (probably this same guy just posting recently) I hope those who have dealt w/ me will stand up for me. p.s I offered this guy $300 to return the plate, then he's in to 400 for a bunch of good parts and fantastick neck that cost nearly that much.

[Deneb]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

Paypal will not take any money from you until they hear your side. Calmly, and clearly tell the story.

The man bought the guitar, as is, no warranty expressed nor implied.

The man bought a guitar he knew the description of.

You waited for him to pay for it, for a period of 2 weeks, and had to push other offers off of the table.

He did not include the shipping charge, you paid it without complaint.

He is threatening to black mail you *uh, illegal*. He is threatening to make slander and lible, both offenses that he can be tried for.

As to the so called *value* of the plates/parts, they very with time and the market, you may very well find a buyer to pay more.

Tell him, you are not entertaining the thought of sending him money back, that he full well understood what he was getting.

Do you have a shipping reciept?

Tell him, he got a very fair deal, and honestly that he owes you 20$ for the shipping difference.

Also, let him know that just because he *hates* the route does not mean it is not functional. I hate the route of my 650XL but it is a superb guitar in every respect.

Be calm, but firm. If he persists, do you have a friend that is a lawyer? A family member? Send him a legal letter entailing the deal on a lawfirms letter-head.

That will surely shut him up, if not get your 20$ also. And those letters do not cost too much at all, maybe 35-50$.

[charvel pointy head]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

may I add, this guitar is a good looking, great playing and sounding guitar? Heck if I had the money to spare, I'd buy it right back any day. I just don't get what the problem is, it's a great guitar. Just parts is all.

[charvel pointy head]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

AS to the lawyer, yeah, my old roomate, called him about this already, and cc'd my emails to this guy. I don't want to trash him, he's probably a cool guy that doesn't want this guitar, but, like the guy above said, it's a done deal. It's not like I didn't have other offers. I've even considered other ways to work it out, i.e. my other offers. Problem is I think he blew his stack while I was on vacation and when I got back he had kind of a rude email, but to no avail, I would have been willing to work something out, but told him it was going to take time. I've got a family and this stuff is a hobby for me, so I don't throw around money lightly. Anyway, thanks guys for your support, but to be fair I'm sure he has his version of events. I just wanted to get the thoughts going on this one before he comes to the forum and starts treating me like Vince Sansevear or something.

[83SanDimas]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

Lets be fair and not offer any judgement until (and if) the other party states their position.

This thread does pose an interesting possability. A greivance committe. If both parties consent maybe we can get a few members in good standing to review both sides and help resolve it ala a JCF peoples court. It can be done off line..Just a thought

Another interesting idea that I got from a well respected member of this forum is a 24 hour review and recind period on all sales. If we truely are brothers here it is a worth while and fair idea. Buyer sends payment, seller ships, ups delivers, buyer reviews and if unhappy returns at his cost. Seller refunds when guitar is recieved back. The 24 hours gives a deadline to a dispute. Resolve it that day or return it at your cost. Seller lost on shipping, buyer lost on shipping.

I have placed items on the forum for sale and realized we have a large age spread here on the forum. A transaction between a 40 +/- year old and a teenager is different than between 2 people your own age. Value and money are different as age changes (somtimes but not always don't beat me up on this one.. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] A $300 dollar guitar to one guy could be some one elses entire savings...

[Jim Shine]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

Originally posted by 83SanDimas:
I have placed items on the forum for sale and realized we have a large age spread here on the forum. A transaction between a 40 +/- year old and a teenager is different than between 2 people your own age. Value and money are different as age changes (somtimes but not always don't beat me up on this one.. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] A $300 dollar guitar to one guy could be some one elses entire savings...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree 100%!

[shreddermon]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

Not knowing any other details than what's in this thread so far, I agree with Jim. Circumstantially - and only hearing one side of the story - sounds like buyers remorse.

In any event, if you're confident you can resell the guitar for similar $, take it back and do so. You'll have to swing the $ and a PITA to deal with, for sure. ...But ultimately, it's probably less of a PITA than continuing to haggle with the seller and/or getting trashed by him on the forum. (...Whether true or not, it'll make some people think twice about dealing with you.) To me, a good reputation is more important. Lesser of evils.

[Chuckracer]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

OK, time for my two cents.

I have been in contact with Mark starting when he first posted and asked for info on member "Charvel Pointy Head". It seems communication had broken down between them and he was concerned. I emailed Mark and explained that Clark travels a lot for his job, so may not be timely with the emails. He also asked, if I recall correctly in that same post, if anyone had any bad dealings with "Charvel Pointy Head".

Clark, you and I have had, I believe, two deals fall apart at the eleventh hour, deals where you backed out. One deal was a trade for a guitar I had for this very Charvel, and I had already shipped mine to you when I learned you changed your mind and backed out. You shipped my guitar back to me after a month so, maybe less, and I never was reimbursed for the shipping costs. As I recall, there were many un-answered emails concerning when I could expect my guitar back.

I don't remember the details of the other deal that went bad, it was a couple of years ago, but it seems like you were buying something from me and backed out after making excuses including your wife leaving the money orders on your desk and not mailing them...something along those lines. Like I said, I don't remember the specifics, nor the item being potentially bought.

The point is, when Mark asked his questions, I shared the info I had about dealings with you.

About that route: That is in NO WAY a Charvel route job, and isn't very good looking.

I don't blame Mark for being upset, just as I don't blame Clark for being upset, and wether or not you guys can come to a conclusion that makes both parties happy remains to be seen. I don't think offers of selling parts of the guitar back is the answer.

Mark has heard my opinion on what I think is right, but it's up to you guys. I really hope there is an amicable conclusion.

[RacerX]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

Originally posted by lerxstcat:
I think its quicksand for the board to attempt mediating Classifieds disputes. It is a thankless waste of time for all involved. I say let the Classifieds run as a flea market, unimpeded

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm with Lerx on that.

[Twisteramps]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

Originally posted by RacerX:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by lerxstcat:
I think its quicksand for the board to attempt mediating Classifieds disputes. It is a thankless waste of time for all involved. I say let the Classifieds run as a flea market, unimpeded

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm with Lerx on that. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Me three. Admins have enough to worry about without hand holding through the classifieds. If someone screws someone else over through the JCF classifieds, it gets around, trust me. And the same for good deals too.

I'd also be wary of folks who I don't know from the boards or are recent additions to the JCF.

Pete

[nor]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

Me four.

An inspection period can't work.

How many times do we all say/hear "I'm selling this to fund something else...", or "I dont wanna, but I really need the cash right now..."

As soon as the payment is recieved, it usually goes right back out the door, for whatever reason. Hence, no refund dough available.

If we had to effectively 'escrow' each sale - we'd all find somewhere else to sell.

The buyer/seller are the only real parties in these transactions. And I hope you blokes can sort things out.

Peace.

[lerxstcat]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

Originally posted by Chuckracer:
OK, time for my two cents.

I have been in contact with Mark starting when he first posted and asked for info on member "Charvel Pointy Head". It seems communication had broken down between them and he was concerned. I emailed Mark and explained that Clark travels a lot for his job, so may not be timely with the emails. He also asked, if I recall correctly in that same post, if anyone had any bad dealings with "Charvel Pointy Head".

Clark, you and I have had, I believe, two deals fall apart at the eleventh hour, deals where you backed out. One deal was a trade for a guitar I had for this very Charvel, and I had already shipped mine to you when I learned you changed your mind and backed out. You shipped my guitar back to me after a month so, maybe less, and I never was reimbursed for the shipping costs. As I recall, there were many un-answered emails concerning when I could expect my guitar back.

I don't remember the details of the other deal that went bad, it was a couple of years ago, but it seems like you were buying something from me and backed out after making excuses including your wife leaving the money orders on your desk and not mailing them...something along those lines. Like I said, I don't remember the specifics, nor the item being potentially bought.

The point is, when Mark asked his questions, I shared the info I had about dealings with you.

About that route: That is in NO WAY a Charvel route job, and isn't very good looking.

I don't blame Mark for being upset, just as I don't blame Clark for being upset, and wether or not you guys can come to a conclusion that makes both parties happy remains to be seen. I don't think offers of selling parts of the guitar back is the answer.

Mark has heard my opinion on what I think is right, but it's up to you guys. I really hope there is an amicable conclusion.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Okay, not wanting to antagonize you Chuck, but 2 things come to mind reading your post:

1) If the route is so bad, why did you want to trade to acquire that very guitar? That doesn't make sense.

2) If you can't remember any details of the second deal except it seems he said his wife left the money orders on the desk, isn't it a bit unfair to even bring that one up? Maybe part of what you don't recall was it being a different guy. If you don't even know what it was for, you shouldn't even bring it up.

Just a couple of observations. Nothing to get hung about.