With much trepidation. . .

[~K~]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

I agree wholeheartedly...I love visiting this board but it's like friggin sunday school censorship every time a few words or said or a dispute of some kind is discussed. How lame. If wanted everything to be censored like on Sesame St. I'll head over on to the Les Paul forum or PRS.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry I can't let this go ....

1) Please give me instances where you have been affected by censorship? You haven't ... We move threads from spammers or fights that disrupt the board for the other 1900 members that are here for guitars and not fights ..

2) After reviewing your post count you come across as someone looking for trouble. After all you choose to post here in an inflammatory way yet I didn't see you involved in the intial conversations ...

3) If you feel this board is that bad I'm not sure why you bother to come here then ... the LPF is probably better suited to your tastes .... See ya

I'm sorry for my rant .. but it really bothers me when I try to explain things in a dimplomatic manner and no matter what I say I come across as a nazi. IMO it's an unaprreciative spoiled attitude when I see stuff like this that just makes me ask myself whats the point ... maybe it's time to go hang with the CC guys 100% of the time ...

[Top Jimmy B]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

I think the idea of an area to air dirty laundry is bad one. As Kevin said, some guys like to argue...that's the reason they come here. Do we want to bring that to the surface by giving them a place where they have carte blanche? Could be ugly. I don't visit CC so I'm not sure how that is moderated - maybe there is a way.
This current dispute is unfortunate as it seems both guys see different things in the guitar. Be grateful this is your beef. A few of us here have been the victims of theft while buying via the classifieds.

[mm2002]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

by Kmaynard: I'm sorry for my rant .. but it really bothers me when I try to explain things in a dimplomatic manner and no matter what I say I come across as a nazi. IMO it's an unaprreciative spoiled attitude when I see stuff like this that just makes me ask myself whats the point ... maybe it's time to go hang with the CC guys 100% of the time ...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think your rant is justified and I see your point. I don't think anyone here considers you a "nazi" [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I also think you are handling all this whole thread in a very diplomatic manner but there were some past issues where I think a lot of people thought you were being a little nit-picky and using your authority in an unjust manner. The truth is that none of us should make that judgement because we don't know all the facts. We need to just assume your doing things for the right reason and trust you on your decisions. I know what you guys (admins)are doing is unpaid and thankless and you're all doing a fine job in my opinion. I know you kinda took my previous statement a little wrong but I guess the point I was trying to make is that I expect to be able to come here and speak my mind, as long as I keep it civil. And I think MOST of us try to do that.

[Guest]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

Whoops..
I haven't seen all the pics but the route doesn't looked hacked from that view. Some people are very exact about things and who did them though.

[ October 15, 2003, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: Dude ]

[ranalli]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

Originally posted by KMaynard:

1) Please give me instances where you have been affected by censorship? You haven't ... We move threads from spammers or fights that disrupt the board for the other 1900 members that are here for guitars and not fights ..

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How about the Bad News Guys thread?? That thread was shutdown before people even got to thank Morgan for passing down some good solid info. It wasn't until I complained that it was opened back up? No real harm done and I'm not bashing anyone but that stuff is just silly....let people discuss. I've seen that happen a few other times in the past too...moderaters decide when discussions start/end yet no mudslinging has been done and conversations have always been very civil on here. Anyone can attest to the fact that discussions get snippy from time to time and that's that....if you can't handle that then maybe you shouldn't leave your house. Unless someone is going out of their way to harrass other forumites continually making personal agendas against people then I can't see any reason why not to let them discuss their views/opinions.

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2) After reviewing your post count you come across as someone looking for trouble. After all you choose to post here in an inflammatory way yet I didn't see you involved in the intial conversations ...

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So now we're judging people on how many posts they have?? That's what I get for being primarily a lurker. And I wasn't aware of any rules saying that I couldn't disagree/agree with any point made in the thread. I posted a strong opinion...big deal...like I'm realy trying to wreck the Jackson Board....? Threads wander just like conversations do and I dont' see you attacking who I replied to in the same manner for stating their opinion.

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3) If you feel this board is that bad I'm not sure why you bother to come here then ... the LPF is probably better suited to your tastes .... See ya

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Nobody said this board was "that bad". I feel this is still a good place to come which is why I visit. I was around on the old board too so it's not just like I popped in yesterday and started complaining today. I do, however believe that shutting threads down when the discussion has been kept civil is silly and something along the lines of a pre-school classroom.

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I'm sorry for my rant .. but it really bothers me when I try to explain things in a dimplomatic manner and no matter what I say I come across as a nazi. IMO it's an unaprreciative spoiled attitude when I see stuff like this that just makes me ask myself whats the point ... maybe it's time to go hang with the CC guys 100% of the time ...

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Nobody said you didn't try to explain yourself in a diplomatic way and I understand where you are coming from. I honestly didn't finish reading the thread to get to your post before I replied. On the other hand, see where others are coming from and think about how as if you were a member how you would probably want to have the ability to discuss things freely without the fear of having your conversations shutdown becaues they didn't adhere to someone elses standards.

Nobody is questioning your intent and everyone appreciates the mods...that we can all agree. And I don't think "nazi" is the correct word to use in this scenario but "overzealous" when it comes to shutting down debates is probably more appropriate. But like I said, I just have an issue with silly censorship of topics and civil conversations. For the most part though, people here really do appreciate the job you guys do of keeping the spam off the board and keeping it clean...myself included and I've said that a number of times in the past. So don't think your work has not gone unrecognized.
[/QB]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

[ October 15, 2003, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: ranalli ]

[~K~]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

I'm judging you based on the fact that you weren't involved in the conversation yet you decided to flame me based on the standards of the JCF and what you feel is stupid. You can't complain about censorship when you don't participate on a daily level and haven't been personally censored.

As far as the morgan thread .. An admin moved it thinking it was a bad issue and it was put back when it was discussed.. it was a judgement call based on a "New" admin .. nothing more nothing less ...

I didn't see you address the fact that you complained about the swear filters .. While it may be a part of everyday language there are women and children that come to this forum .. Are you proud of the fact that you can say the F word in front of them? .. And on the censorship level ..we haven't ever deleted a post for the spelling Fukk or fukkin in it .. albiet we should ..

Maybe if you looked in the lower threads you might see a mention of how the admins have tried to back off from the heavy hands and let the board run on it's own a bit more ..

Censorship ... how bout the fact you were allowed to post anegative comment here and not get it deleted because it irked at least 2 to 3 admins? ..

We run the board based on a set of rules adopted when the board was founded.. it's a judgement call .. I'm sorry if my judgement isn't as clear as yours ....

[Morgan Ringwald FMIC]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

Here's how it should be handled ...

Let me decide who is right and who is wrong and who should get the guitar and who should get the money. Don't worry, I'm good at these things. Just remember, what I say goes!

As for a complaints/flame/escrow/evaluation area, that won't work. Just send all of your questions and comments to me via e-mail, and I'll take care of it. Really, any time of the day or night, just drop me an e-mail and I'll make all of the problems go away. Afterall, I DO work for FMIC.

Wait ... those are terrible ideas. Please disregard the above.

M-

[toejam]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

I agree with everything said. No, I disagree with everything said. Wait... what?!? [img]graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/sleep.gif[/img]

[nor]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

[img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] @ Morgan...

You forgot your meds, again!

[img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[mulder1966]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

I have a taken a couple pics if someone will host them. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[2Loud2Old]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

I'm no expert or even close on those guitars so I'm probably talking out of my a$$

But.....

That looks like a CLEAN route, but it nowhere looks like any Floyd route I've ever seen on ANY guitar..The Bengal's route is what I'd call a proper non-recessed Floyd route.

[ October 15, 2003, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: 2Loud2Old ]

[ranalli]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

Originally posted by KMaynard:
I'm judging you based on the fact that you weren't involved in the conversation yet you decided to flame me based on the standards of the JCF and what you feel is stupid. You can't complain about censorship when you don't participate on a daily level and haven't been personally censored.

As far as the morgan thread .. An admin moved it thinking it was a bad issue and it was put back when it was discussed.. it was a judgement call based on a "New" admin .. nothing more nothing less ...

I didn't see you address the fact that you complained about the swear filters .. While it may be a part of everyday language there are women and children that come to this forum .. Are you proud of the fact that you can say the F word in front of them? .. And on the censorship level ..we haven't ever deleted a post for the spelling Fukk or fukkin in it .. albiet we should ..

Maybe if you looked in the lower threads you might see a mention of how the admins have tried to back off from the heavy hands and let the board run on it's own a bit more ..

Censorship ... how bout the fact you were allowed to post anegative comment here and not get it deleted because it irked at least 2 to 3 admins? ..

We run the board based on a set of rules adopted when the board was founded.. it's a judgement call .. I'm sorry if my judgement isn't as clear as yours ....

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Where did I flame you personally?? I agreed with someone else in the thread and proceeded to state my opinion linked to it?? Can't you read??

"I wasn't involved in the conversation" is your logic behind my post being "inflammatory"?? So how does one get into a conversation on the JCF?? You tell me. So now you're deciding who can and can't join conversations on a discussion board??

Stop playing the pity target cause you're not one....nobody is putting a bullseye on you and saying, "go get em!!". This was no personal attack I made, I called out no one...unlike what you are doing to me for the 2nd post now.

Looks more like you decided to take an opinion personally when it wasn't meant to be that way and started flaming me....now who is creating the sludge on this board?

And where did I disagree with the bad word filters??? I never thought that women and children should be subject to swearing....where are you getting this from?? Making it up??


Honestly, I just lost a lot of respect for you as a moderator. You targeted me because I disagreed and then proceeded to base the validity of my opinion on how much I contribute in your eyes to this forum. I'm sure the other 1700 members of this forum that contribute less than I do will be pleased to know that their opinions are garbage too and are subject to being a target should they ever disagree. Please...get off your high horse. Your opinion is no better than mine and you have a right to state yours as well. I have treated you respectfully but you have not done the same in return.

Censor me, ban me, whatever...seems like any opinion that you don't agree with is "negative" or "inflammatory".

Bottom line is that there is a Judge Judy trial started right in the middle of the forum and that's fine yet....oh well nevermind...

As for the any input into the initial dispute I don't wanna chime in till pics are posted because that's the real truth I feel.....unless I'm banned after this post of course.

[mulder1966]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

At this point I fell the need to eat it and take the matter out back and shoot it. People will have their own opinions on the route, and thats cool, but no one can say that is a factory route or even close. Yes it's square and not jagged, but who ever did it had no idea what they were doing. As for the guitar (parts) I wanted the body and plate, the Floyd is good, although no where near the beauty I got from Chuckracer. The neck is a very nice playing neck, but I don't like rosewood that much. Overall the guitar plays good and will make a good "no worries player". As for the price, I am sure I could sell all the parts and get my money back, but the issue is with the representation of the guitar. I would never sell anything I thought was not exactly as described, and if the buyer was not happy I would make it right, or take it back. And I am not that mad at Clark, but if this was a trend, I wouldn't want anyone getting a bad deal knowing something about it. Just treat everyone the way you would like to be treated. The question is: If you had bought this guitar, would you be ok with it? Mark

[mm2002]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

I see what Mark is talking about regarding the trem route. It is nothing close to correct but it is neatly done and doesn't look that bad with the trem on it. I think it would take away from the value of the guitar from a collectors standpoint but it was a parts guitar anyway and that route wouldn't make it any worse of a player. My question would be: Did Mark see the pics of the route with the trem removed before he purchased it? Did he ask to? If I were buying it for restoration I would have noticed that square corner on the route and asked to see the whole route with the trem removed. If I just wanted a good player that route wouldn't bother me a bit. I can see why Mark was not pleased with it if he only saw pics with the trem installed before he purchased it and had intentions of using the body for a restoration project. That body is just a player now but it's far from junk.

[charvelguy]

Re: With much trepidation. . .

I do not know..but I'm getting dizzy reading back n forth with cursers [img]graemlins/nono.gif[/img]