Non-recessed Floyd question - Adrian Smith USA guitar

[xenophobe]

Does anyone remember a JCFer named Shredmonster whose primary concern about a guitar was sustain? He would harp on sustain in what seemed like very one of his posts, and sustain seemed to be the primary deciding factor in guitars he selected to own.

Yeah, lol. I remember. I've come to the conclusion, with the exception of just dead guitars, it doesn't really matter.

[Giffin]

Sustain is not only about holding notes, but I think that is a important consideration as well if one likes to pull off some classic Van Halen type trem tricks. So I want to be able to hold notes for pretty long. And I don't see what is non-sensical about questioning how a change on a guitar effects sustain in general. I don't see what is ridiculous about collecting the full-range of possible info on a topic either. I am going to make an offer to the dealer I left the guitar to be sold to and they don't have any other Floyded guitar options available in this price range, so I will have to get it unless I simply hate it when I have it in my hands. It could well take a few years for the guitar to sell if I don't choose to trade, it is a decent Gibson Les Paul, and trust me it is a fact where I live.. This is not the States or any other place where you can have just about any gear you want or need and can get rid ofit when you want to. Thanks for the information anyway.

[toejam]

You do realize Eddie Van Halen not only has a non-recessed trem, but his rests on the body so he can't pull up at all?

[MountainDog]

I have a USA AS with ebony board and a USA AS with the maple board. Both guitars appear to have the neck tilted back slightly (similar to the pic NoTP shows above). I'm mainly a rhythm player so my guitars are set up for low action. On both guitars the floyd base plate is set up parallel to the body. On both guitars I can pluck an open G string and pull up about 1.75 steps (i.e reaching higher than A#, but can't get to the B note). Fretting G string on 12th fret yields the same pullup. Neither guitar 'frets out' doing this, notes still ring out. Does the same amount of pullup on other strings/other frets all up and down the fingerboard.

i also have the SDX (maple board) and the neck is NOT tilted, but parallel to the body. Due to this the floyd is closer to the body than on the USA ones and I only get a 1 step on pullup: G to A.

[xenophobe]

Sustain is not only about holding notes, but I think that is a important consideration as well if one likes to pull off some classic Van Halen type trem tricks. So I want to be able to hold notes for pretty long. And I don't see what is non-sensical about questioning how a change on a guitar effects sustain in general. I don't see what is ridiculous about collecting the full-range of possible info on a topic either. I am going to make an offer to the dealer I left the guitar to be sold to and they don't have any other Floyded guitar options available in this price range, so I will have to get it unless I simply hate it when I have it in my hands. It could well take a few years for the guitar to sell if I don't choose to trade, it is a decent Gibson Les Paul, and trust me it is a fact where I live.. This is not the States or any other place where you can have just about any gear you want or need and can get rid ofit when you want to.

Uh, yeah, the reason things probably "get so difficult with you" is your attitude. You asked for opinions, you're getting them, and because you don't like some of them you're getting defensive? Yeah, it really is just you. :p

In my experience of owning at least 100 guitars, mostly USA and custom Jacksons, and playing 35+ years and gigging more than half of that, sustain isn't a matter of hardware or build type... set neck, neck-thru or bolt on, it's a more a matter of wood density.

Thanks for the information anyway.

Thanks for joining the forum anyway.

[Giffin]

You do realize Eddie Van Halen not only has a non-recessed trem, but his rests on the body so he can't pull up at all?

Do you really need to hear me say that these have nothing to do with what I was talking about? It was a discussion about sustain...

End of it guys... no need to take this further, at least for me... good day

[Giffin]

I have a USA AS with ebony board and a USA AS with the maple board. Both guitars appear to have the neck tilted back slightly (similar to the pic NoTP shows above). I'm mainly a rhythm player so my guitars are set up for low action. On both guitars the floyd base plate is set up parallel to the body. On both guitars I can pluck an open G string and pull up about 1.75 steps (i.e reaching higher than A#, but can't get to the B note). Fretting G string on 12th fret yields the same pullup. Neither guitar 'frets out' doing this, notes still ring out. Does the same amount of pullup on other strings/other frets all up and down the fingerboard.

i also have the SDX (maple board) and the neck is NOT tilted, but parallel to the body. Due to this the floyd is closer to the body than on the USA ones and I only get a 1 step on pullup: G to A.

That was very useful, thanks for the write up...

[CaptNasty]

First and foremost, no-one anywhere said that you were "ridiculous". I did challenge some of your assumptions, but that is what happens on forums... if you can't handle that perhaps you are a bit too sensitive to frequent forums.

As for you stating Van Halen has a lot of sustain, the sustain was achieved with very high volumes and very high gain. Other than a brass big block there was little on the Frankenstein to address sustain.

You brought sustain up and tied it to EVH, Toejam's response in no way "hijacked" what you as OP made this thread about. He is right by the way. EVH had the Floyd pretty much flush mounted on his Frankenstein and blocked it with quarters he screwed in at the corners of of the Floyd (i.e. No pullups... 0 steps), but as stated previously the bulk of what EVH did was through massive volume and gain with a stereo rig, echo plex, and delays (inserted between the cab abd amp head). If you think you will find a guitar whose sustain magically allows you to do what EVH does while playing at apartment/garage volumes, you are going to be disappointed no matter what guitar you get.

To summarize my previous post: You are WAY overthinking this. I would bet that the guitar you are looking at would be one of the nicer playing guitars you will encounter in your lifetime. The bigger concern that you don't seem to be considering with a LP to Jackson jump is the neck. That is where you will see a big difference.

If you like what EVH does and he used a non-recessed Floyd what in the world would make you think that your non-recessed Floyd be different?

[toejam]

Do you really need to hear me say that these have nothing to do with what I was talking about? It was a discussion about sustain...

You were so concerned about how much you could pull up, then you go talking about classic Van Halen trem tricks. Why in the world would you need to pull up if you want to play EVH?Thanks for playing.

[Number Of The Priest]

This could well be a final consideration: do those Stewmac shims effect sustain in any negative way?

OK I'll be serious now and address this question. I have zero personal experience actually owning or using these StewMac shims, but comparing them to other improvised methods of shimming (such as bits of paper, business cards, guitar picks, matchsticks, small slivers of wood) then I can see how the shims are inherently better. The shims ensure a large surface area of contact between the neck and the neck pocket. If I wanted to minimize potential sustain loss, I would be choosing the shims instead of the improvised materials I listed which would only offer small contact points (thus theoretically or perhaps practically reducing sustain).

[Axewielder]

Since we are talking about shims now, in my experience the biggest pitfall isn't sustain but neck slippage. I tightened the crap out of the neck screws with a metal shim in there, and it would still slip ever so slightly. I changed the shim to a wood shim and it was resolved.

There are very few universal truths to sustain when it comes to guitar construction. Volume and gain and hot pickups definitely matter though as has been stated already. So focus more on that if that is your top priority.

[Carbuff]

Ive got a mexi-fender sambora strat. Its got that screw adjustable tilt thing on it. It makes it so you can adjust the neck tilt any degree you like in order to get the floyd to sit high or low to the body. I cant really talk as to sustain but I guess the surface area is just the edge of the neck and the point of the screw thing. It works pretty well and the neck never moves on me. Can one of those be added to a guitar?

I just found a video on the micro tilt thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ekS4KBMpVY

[Force]

i also have the SDX (maple board) and the neck is NOT tilted, but parallel to the body. Due to this the floyd is closer to the body than on the USA ones and I only get a 1 step on pullup: G to A.

You sure? Reading this made me check mine as I thought the neck was angled. I put a straight edge on the body & sure enough, angled neck.
For comparison's sake I checked some recessed gits & there's no neck angle, as there shouldn't be.

[ed]

Ive got a mexi-fender sambora strat. Its got that screw adjustable tilt thing on it. It makes it so you can adjust the neck tilt any degree you like in order to get the floyd to sit high or low to the body. I cant really talk as to sustain but I guess the surface area is just the edge of the neck and the point of the screw thing. It works pretty well and the neck never moves on me. Can one of those be added to a guitar?

I just found a video on the micro tilt thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ekS4KBMpVY

Much easier to just put a shim in there than install a micro tilt. However i have seen many of those micro tilts on lots of Fenders. Fender probably has a patent for that thing.

[CaptNasty]

I have a USA AS with ebony board and a USA AS with the maple board. Both guitars appear to have the neck tilted back slightly (similar to the pic NoTP shows above). I'm mainly a rhythm player so my guitars are set up for low action. On both guitars the floyd base plate is set up parallel to the body. On both guitars I can pluck an open G string and pull up about 1.75 steps (i.e reaching higher than A#, but can't get to the B note). Fretting G string on 12th fret yields the same pullup. Neither guitar 'frets out' doing this, notes still ring out. Does the same amount of pullup on other strings/other frets all up and down the fingerboard.

i also have the SDX (maple board) and the neck is NOT tilted, but parallel to the body. Due to this the floyd is closer to the body than on the USA ones and I only get a 1 step on pullup: G to A.

Do you know if the Floyd on the SDX was mounted at the factory or after market? Was it a recessed or non-recessed installation?