evh guitars way overpriced

[stevenh]

Re: evh guitars way overpriced

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If a small guitar builder used a band or jigsaw to cut the rough body shape of his guitar, is it not "hand made"? Does it have to be chisled out of a log or block of wood?

Same about the fret slots ... is it wrong to use circular saw?



[/ QUOTE ]

Here's my position, plain and simple. If you use a CNC machine, you completely take away the label of hand made. If you use a jigsaw or bandsaw to rough cut the wood, then yes, I do consider it handmade. In my opinion, if you use CNC machines to do the routing, neck shaping, and then call it handmade, I think it cheapens the work done by REAL Luthiers who do shape their necks, route the bodies and cut and shape the bodies, or those Luthiers that completely make acoustic guitars by hand.

[Flatpicker]

Re: evh guitars way overpriced

I don't need no steeking beavers.
I'll gnaw the wood into shape with my teeth, Smelt the metal in my kitchen sink and join the neck to the body with whatever sticky bodily fluids I can find. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[markb]

Re: evh guitars way overpriced

Someone who builds individual instruments start to finish as a professional, and makes individual decisions (or at least has the option)on and controls each part of the process...AKA a luthier... I think that is where the tag handmade rightfully belongs. The use of shop tools doesn't factor. Standardization and division of labor are the difference.

A Driskill is fully handmade, a Charvel is not. Handmade is an unreasonable thing to ask of a Charvel. What is the importance?

[Hamner1]

Re: evh guitars way overpriced

I'll say that I think the EVH Charvels are overpriced, but then again I have not shelled out more than $1000.00 for any guitar I have owned. Also I am not a huge Strathead person and personally I like the Jackson Pointy headstock better. Eddie stripping or endorsing these guitars doesn't do anything for me either. So regardless of the construction methods, woods, and parts used, I find this guitar overpriced.

Now with that said, if they were going to reissue a true Rhoads LTD again (with or without a Floyd) I would find 3k to be reasonable. But I am a Rhoads fan and I like the body style of the LTD.

It has been stated before that these necks are not Fender necks. Even if Fender made these necks I wouldn't consider them Fender necks, because they would be made for a different company with a different profile, radius, & widths. Had they stuck with a standard Fender necks, then you could call them Fender necks with a charvel decal.

[Grandturk]

Re: evh guitars way overpriced

[ QUOTE ]
Here's my position, plain and simple. If you use a CNC machine, you completely take away the label of hand made. If you use a jigsaw or bandsaw to rough cut the wood, then yes, I do consider it handmade. In my opinion, if you use CNC machines to do the routing, neck shaping, and then call it handmade, I think it cheapens the work done by REAL Luthiers who do shape their necks, route the bodies and cut and shape the bodies, or those Luthiers that completely make acoustic guitars by hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the difference between a CNC machine routing a piece of wood and a worker routing a piece of wood using a router and a template? Arguably, there's not much skill involved in attaching a template to a piece of wood and running it through the router - the router does all the work and the craftsman just jiggles the wood around on the template - for instance, watch Wayne Charvel's workshop videos.

I hate to say it, but that kind of ruins the "hand made" illusion for me - its not like he's band sawing the body freehand with no patterns or template. If you have the ability to use a machine to make your cuts, you should use it, and to me, it does not lessen the value of the guitar.

[RP]

Re: evh guitars way overpriced

If "more than I would pay for that particular guitar" equals overpriced, then I guess I think they are, too. But, I honestly don't see the EVH guitars as being all that pricey from Jackson/Charvel's end. The list price isn't outrageous, in my opinion, especially when compared to the Retro guitars.

It really seems like most people's problem with the price stems from the dealers charging more than what we normally expect for a given list price.

That is, of course, each dealer's right to set their prices at whatever they wish. But I know how it can be to be used to one level of discount only to see a smaller discount on a different product.

Of course, I wouldn't be interested in these particular guitars even at the "usual" discount, but that's just my preference. It's unlikely I would be interested if they were the same price as a Charvel USA Standard. That's just me.

[~K~]

Re: evh guitars way overpriced

Very good points Grand Turk .. This point of view of CNC also seems to lend to the fact that people think a CNC'ed body or neck is inferior to an entirely handmade neck or body. The fact is that CNC has made building guitars far more consistent neck to neck, body to body and there is nothing inferior about it.

With that stated talk to any old charvel boy.. Bret,Ralph,Larry etc they will all tell you the same thing. That even with the supposed entirely hand crafted guitar some of those necks are magical and some just plain suck... There's no consistency.. this doesn't mean every neck they turn out on a cnc will be magical .. but you will end up with a much higher consistency guitar to guitar.. and for the player who plays several guitars a night that needs that consistency it can be a great thing ..

[gtrbuyer]

Re: evh guitars way overpriced

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With that stated talk to any old charvel boy.. Bret,Ralph,Larry etc they will all tell you the same thing. That even with the supposed entirely hand crafted guitar some of those necks are magical and some just plain suck... There's no consistency..

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Kev what necks specifically are you referring to...I am confused does the old Charvels boys feel the early Strat Heads were crap (or some of them)...kinda confused??

[~K~]

Re: evh guitars way overpriced

[ QUOTE ]

Kev what necks specifically are you referring to...I am confused does the old Charvels boys feel the early Strat Heads were crap (or some of them)...kinda confused??

[/ QUOTE ]

The point Tracy was that because the necks were shaped by hand that not all the necks are consistent. There are several charvel guys that have stated as such ..Probably more on the side of the stratheads.. Even you have said the pointies tend to be a little more consistent but I'm sure by that point there were better methods in place for producing necks.. hence more consistency ...

As far as the stratheads went you see a lot more variance ..those necks tend to be earlier than the pointies correct? how many stratheads do you have and out of those would you say every neck feels great or would you say they vary and some are better than others?

[stevenh]

Re: evh guitars way overpriced

[ QUOTE ]
The fact is that CNC has made building guitars far more consistent neck to neck, body to body and there is nothing inferior about it.


[/ QUOTE ]

With this, you and I agree (although I'm sure that me agreeing with you is not high on your priority list). My point of view is that I can see myself paying more for an instrument that is entirely handmade. There is more skill and blood, sweat and tears involved in a handmade instrument. Look, I'm not a vintage or handmade instrument snob. Not one of my guitars is handmade, and I've even spent 2,200.00 on a GMW Randy Rhoads Polka Dot V. I just have a problem with high priced, mass produced guitars in general, especially one that is as "no frills" as the EVH and the 25th.

If I've offended anyone here, I am truely sorry. Sometimes when debates are spirited, they can become too spirited. I have noticed that American Musical Supply is going to stock the EVH models for just over $2,500.00 (5 "easy" payments of $500.00 per month).

I hope I'm still welcome here.

[jhale667]

Re: evh guitars way overpriced

I have two old R5 Charvel strathead necked Mutt guitars...the earliest one (built around '84-85) feels just like most of the "holy grail" old Charvels I've played, the second one, built a couple of years later, feels a bit more blocky, but still cool. But back in the day I doubt any two were EXACTLY the same... [img]/images/graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img]

[Morgan Ringwald FMIC]

Re: evh guitars way overpriced

Stevenh,

While I don't wholly agree with your description of "hand made", I apprecaite your clarification and respect your opinion.

Throughout this thread, I've been trying to come up with examples of fine "hand made" instruments that actually do use some sort of machinery, and my mind keeps drifting towards Amati or Stradavarius violins ... I don't think those were made with anything but love and sweat.

However, I don't think that kind of building exists in the world of guitars today.

M-

[Jim Shine]

Re: evh guitars way overpriced

My opinion is when the factory isn't trying to pushing the workers to build more product at the sacrifice of quality, the parts with more handwork are atleast more interesting than CNC made items. The variance that makes some necks or bodies total garbage also swings the other way and creates a special piece that far exceeds the standard. Even the standard shape varies giving each its own identity. Consistancy is nice for some people, but I myself enjoy the subtle differences in feel between necks hand shaped. That is just my opinion and it is no more important than anyone elses.

[gtrbuyer]

Re: evh guitars way overpriced

Kev..I am, as you know, in the "pointy" camp and have always favored the pointy neck profile for playing. IMO you cannot beat those necks (pointies) and they are SUPER consistent one to the other.

Strat Heads, yeah do vary but more in neck width (option when cutsomer ordered a guitar) and back shape..but I see your point. I probably read ya wrong..I thought some of them goo old Charvel boys meant that some necks were crapola, my bad.

I am excited to see Charvels back and will be ponying up the $$ to have a few new pointies in my stable. The EVHs are cool and will make EVH and Charvel fans very happy I am sure. I am more keen on custom ordering a few more pointies but to each their own.

[Morgan Ringwald FMIC]

Re: evh guitars way overpriced

One more thing ...

While truly "hand made" guitars may not exist in large numbers, I must say that the amount of hand work that goes into even mass produced guitars is tremendous. I'll even go so far as to say that the hand work outweighs the machine work 3:1 or 4:1, but again, this is where we might split hairs on what constitues "hand work".

But a point was made earlier and I hope you can respect it ... there are a lot of hard working people building Charvel guitars with a lot of love and passion, and I would not want to downplay their role in the end result ... which is a well made, very playable and beautiful instrument.

M-