Jackson JDR Concept (Floyd Rose question)

[metalgent]

Hi Folks! I own a Jackson JDR Concept and I'm planning to do an upgrade on its bridge, however, I'm looking for a drop-in replacement as I intend to upgrade myself. So, I've been doing some research and apparently the options that could be a drop-in replacement are Schaller Lockmeister or Gotoh 1996T. Has any of you done that and if so, how it went?

I'm also happy to hear other opinions regarding other FR options or anything really.

Just a bit of context, I'm just upgrading because when I bought this guitar I had another JDR which was in better shape but didn't like the colour and the neck wasn't great so I basically put the 2 apart and made a good one but the FR string blocks are not that good.

Thanks!

[ed]

I believe the jdr had the JT-500 so the current schaller should be a drop in replacement. The schaller lockmeister has the longer locking screws that will most likely go beyond the trem route.Same thing i believe with the Gotoh. The current schaller FR trem is the same as Jackson JT-590 was and the JT-500 was basically the same as JT-590 but it was cheaper and not so good materials used and it wasnt made by schaller.

The locking screws sticking out of the trem route is not necissarily a problem i have seen OFRs in jt-590 routes before. You just wont be able to do pull ups on the trem and that stuff.

http://audiozone.dk/index-filer/TremoloInfoProject.htm

Here is some reading.

[metalgent]

Yep, I really think the bridge is the JT500 and it's good to know that original Schaller will fit. Thanks

[Number Of The Priest]

If you want a new trem that will fit the route and has the same dimensions as your existing trem, choose the Schaller Tremolo: https://schaller.info/en/tremolos/359/schaller-tremolo

I still think the Original Floyd Rose, Schaller Lockmeister, or the Gotoh GE1996T would be a better choice due to its superior materials (one-piece all-steel baseplate with integrated knife edges) as long as you don't mind the longer screws hindering your ability to pull up on the trem.

It baffles me why nobody makes an all-steel trem with short screws, or nobody has identified aftermarket short screws that are skinny enough to fit an OFR-style trem. Seems like the best of both worlds and a market that no one has tapped.

[metalgent]

If you want a new trem that will fit the route and has the same dimensions as your existing trem, choose the Schaller Tremolo: https://schaller.info/en/tremolos/359/schaller-tremolo

I still think the Original Floyd Rose, Schaller Lockmeister, or the Gotoh GE1996T would be a better choice due to its superior materials (one-piece all-steel baseplate with integrated knife edges) as long as you don't mind the longer screws hindering your ability to pull up on the trem.

It baffles me why nobody makes an all-steel trem with short screws, or nobody has identified aftermarket short screws that are skinny enough to fit an OFR-style trem. Seems like the best of both worlds and a market that no one has tapped.

Thanks a lot. I mean, I barely use the whammy bar but having the screws going outside the routed area sounds a bit odd. On the other hand I don't want to have a "poor quality" replacement because if I'm spending money to upgrade this it's better be good.

[ed]

None of those trems listed is really poor quality. The Gotoh you can probably find cheapest but best fit is the schaller. I have really never had any issues with the current schaller trems. The JT-590s had issues because the saddles were screwed straigth to the baseplate but they have resolved that issue with the current trems.

[Number Of The Priest]

Like ed said above me, the quality of craftsmanship is not the issue, but rather, the materials and composition of "Schaller Tremolo" style trems compared to OFR-style trems. The craftsman is the same but the materials being used differ to make two different products, like a skilled paper airplane maker making one paper airplane out of good quality paper and another out of tissue paper. Same quality and craftsmanship, but different airplanes made out of different types of paper.

In ed's first reply to you, he linked a very educational Audiozone page that goes into some detail why the JT590 is a good trem but not an optimal trem, and the JT500 being another step down from that. The JT590/JT500 is a "Schaller Tremolo" style trem with zinc baseplate, reinforced with steel in crucial areas: the steel knife edges and the steel-lined saddle screw holes. Early JT590s did not even have the latter. Zinc is much softer compared to steel, and those holes could wear out easily if reckless with overtightening of screws over time. Even though the steel-lined reinforcements help negate that, I would still prefer the baseplate and knife edges be integrated as one solid steel piece, as in OFR-style trems (OFR, Lockmeister, GE1996T).

The ideal hypothetical hybrid trem for your short cavity that nobody seems to have invented borrows aspects from both types. It would have the all-steel construction of an OFR/Lockmeister/GE1996T with shorter string locking screws of the length found on the Schaller Tremolo/JT590/JT500 but without their fatness.

The following product I found might be worth investigating. You could buy an all-steel trem like an OFR or Lockmeister (which are identical in specification and materials) and retrofit its long string locking screws with these shorter ones which would then fit in the short route of your JDR Concept. Need to research whether they would retrofit in a Gotoh GE1996T.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-SHORT-Str...-/392264589063

6 Short STRING LOCK Screws only.
For Floyd Rose Tremolos

SET OF 6 (3x 30mm & 3x 35mm)
Black


These shorter screws allow you to use a Floyd Rose Original or Special Tremolo Bridge in a guitar with shorter tremolo routing for the bridge. Universal conical tip fits both cup-style blocks and conical-style block inserts.

[metalgent]

Like ed said above me, the quality of craftsmanship is not the issue, but rather, the materials and composition of "Schaller Tremolo" style trems compared to OFR-style trems. The craftsman is the same but the materials being used differ to make two different products, like a skilled paper airplane maker making one paper airplane out of good quality paper and another out of tissue paper. Same quality and craftsmanship, but different airplanes made out of different types of paper.

In ed's first reply to you, he linked a very educational Audiozone page that goes into some detail why the JT590 is a good trem but not an optimal trem, and the JT500 being another step down from that. The JT590/JT500 is a "Schaller Tremolo" style trem with zinc baseplate, reinforced with steel in crucial areas: the steel knife edges and the steel-lined saddle screw holes. Early JT590s did not even have the latter. Zinc is much softer compared to steel, and those holes could wear out easily if reckless with overtightening of screws over time. Even though the steel-lined reinforcements help negate that, I would still prefer the baseplate and knife edges be integrated as one solid steel piece, as in OFR-style trems (OFR, Lockmeister, GE1996T).

The ideal hypothetical hybrid trem for your short cavity that nobody seems to have invented borrows aspects from both types. It would have the all-steel construction of an OFR/Lockmeister/GE1996T with shorter string locking screws of the length found on the Schaller Tremolo/JT590/JT500 but without their fatness.

The following product I found might be worth investigating. You could buy an all-steel trem like an OFR or Lockmeister (which are identical in specification and materials) and retrofit its long string locking screws with these shorter ones which would then fit in the short route of your JDR Concept. Need to research whether they would retrofit in a Gotoh GE1996T.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-SHORT-Str...-/392264589063

Tha'ts very interested, thanks a lot Number of the Priest! I'll definitely have a look in that. Now a question comes to mind. The FR-style in my Jackson has the plate end in some sort of angle as as well the cavity, which makes me think if any of those bridges would fit in there.

You can see in the images below

[metalgent]

Number Of The Priest Comparing the cavity on my Jackson above and the one you posted, seems like my Jackson's cavity is a bit bigger which makes me think if perhaps an OFR wouldn't fit in there. I've just measured my Jackson's cavity (roughly) and based on this diagram of the original FR it'll fit https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/17...93857680416961 Even the schema for the Lockmeister seems to be a good fit https://schaller.info/en/tremolos/36...meister-6?c=51

[ed]

Thats a JT-580 not a JT-500 so OFR or lockmeister should fit. I guess they made those JDRs with varying specs like different trems and necks. Since yours has sharkies and i have mostly seen them withe the offset dots.

[Number Of The Priest]

In ed's first reply to you above, he linked an Audiozone page that has detailed information on tremolo bridges. If you scroll down to the paragraph about JT580LP, you will see this:

Replacing with a Floyd Rose Original (or similar)

Several users have done this swap with success. The JT-580LP route seems a little larger than the JT-580 route, so there's more room for the long locking bolts of the OFR. Here's a picture posted by JCF member rjohnstone, showing a swap he did on a Jackson PC3 (in standard 440Hz tuning). Plenty of room there. Read more on intonation here.

Studs and stud inserts are typically a direct swap here too if you need that. Sometimes the new stud inserts are a wee bit too large to fit the holes in the guitar. Don't use excessive force like using a hammer to pound them in! You are running a high risk of cracking the wood around the posts. Drill to the correct size holes instead and press them in, in a controlled manner.

[Drake12321]

Bridge is the JT500, I think this is very good for a confident user.

[metalgent]

The bridge is indeed very good, however, and besides being 25 years old, I want to replace because it has lost its colour a bit, the string blocks are not the same for all strings and I'm gonna do those upgrades myself as part of a project I have in mind.

[toejam]

Bridge is the JT500, I think this is very good for a confident user.

If you looked at the pic of the red guitar, it's a JT-580. The JT580 trems are nice; the JT500, not so much.

[Number Of The Priest]

I'm confused. metalgent, which bridge do you have? Earlier in the thread you said you had a JT500 which I understand is the default bridge for a Concept. But then you posted the picture of the red guitar which has a JT580. Is that red guitar yours? If not, post photos of your actual guitar and we can identify what bridge you have, and what aftermarket bridge will fit.