All Pickups Sound Dull in the Bridge - 1986 Charvel Model 3a

[EVOLVIST]

I've been grappling with this for a while now. My Charvel Model 3a from 1986. The original J-80c pups sounded dull - contrasted, obviously, to the brilliant sounding J80c pups in my Model 5 & Model 6 with the mid boost - so, I switched out the bridge pups with a Crunch Lab. Well, that sounded dull, too. Now, I put an Invader in, and it's a little better, but nothing in the bridge sounds really alive in this guitar.

I'm beginning to think the guitar is just cursed! But no, there must be a technical explanation, right? It's as if nothing I put in really shines, and that goes for the neck pup, too.

I recently had a well respected luthier install the Invader and do a complete setup to guitar. It plays extremely well. I'm simply wondering could it be the stock caps, the wiring, the pots, or something. They should have 500k pots in it. Perhaps a 1m pot? I really don't know, but I'm tired of paying a tech...and I've had Invaders in other guitars, and they don't sound this flat. Like I said, it's better than the Crunch Lab, but not as good as it should be.

Maybe Model 3as simply stink?

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

[metalhobo]

I'm beginning to think the guitar is just cursed!

not cursed, just dull sounding, could be the resonances of the wood. I wouldn't chalk it up to model 3as in general, but specifically your guitar. if you can't learn to like the sound of this instrument, it's probably a good idea to replace it. does the guitar sound "dull" unplugged compared to others?

or maybe try active pickups

or if you're against active pickups, it might seem counter-intuitive, but try lower output pickups, like a paf-style. they're usually much brighter, though you'll have to turn up the gain on your amp.

[EVOLVIST]

not cursed, just dull sounding, could be the resonances of the wood. I wouldn't chalk it up to model 3as in general, but specifically your guitar. if you can't learn to like the sound of this instrument, it's probably a good idea to replace it. does the guitar sound "dull" unplugged compared to others?

or maybe try active pickups

or if you're against active pickups, it might seem counter-intuitive, but try lower output pickups, like a paf-style. they're usually much brighter, though you'll have to turn up the gain on your amp.

It's a basswood body, the same as the other woods used in MIJ Charvels from 1986. It doesn't sound dull when unplugged and strumming on it. I have a 1980 Gibson Sonex-180 Custom that sounds dull when unplugged, but plugged in that original Dirty Finger pup in the bridge is amazing. I'm not sure, though, that a PAF in the bridge is going to give me that grunt needed for really heavy riffage.

In the end, I guess I could live with the Invader in the bridge, because tonally it still has that Invader sound. However, if feels like I have to add more reverb to my tracks while playing it, just to liven up the sound. I don't know what I should do.

As for active pickups, I've yet to hear one that I've enjoyed.

[CaptNasty]

What happens if you touch the headstock to a wall and play? Does the dullness improve/get worse?

[pianoguyy]

What happens if you touch the headstock to a wall and play? Does the dullness improve/get worse?

does that work when it is plugged in?
I know it works acoustically. But can't say I ever did it through an amp.

[EVOLVIST]

What happens if you touch the headstock to a wall and play? Does the dullness improve/get worse?

I'll try that when I can get back to the studio. That's an interesting concept.

[CaptNasty]

does that work when it is plugged in?
I know it works acoustically. But can't say I ever did it through an amp.

Yeah it does in my experience. By touching the guitar to the wall, the guitar is mechanically coupled with the wall. This adds the mass of the wall to the guitar (for the purposes of energy transfer) and can alter the frequency response of the instrument and how the instrument absorbs energy from the strings.

Strings vibrate and lose energy via the air, nut, fret, and bridge. Actually all components mechanically coupled to the guitar play a role. It is a chain that transfers energy from conponent to component. Ultimately all energy is eventually lost to the environment via caloric energy transfer.

The guitar acts as an energy sink for the vibrating strings, but there is a finite amount if energy the body and neck can “store”. By mechanically coupling the guitar with the wall, it is like tou have added a very large “battery” that can store even more energy from the strings. The acoustic characteristic of the wall also aggregate with the acoustic properites of the guitar altering the frequency response of the “system”.

Basically since pickups only “hear” the energy in the strings as they vibrate in the pickups magnetic field, anything that alters the energy in the strings alters what the pickups “hear”.

[metalhobo]

I'm not sure, though, that a PAF in the bridge is going to give me that grunt needed for really heavy riffage.

you'd be surprised. but you have to turn up the gain. I play death metal with a J-50BC pickup, which is paf-level output.

also when you say you haven't heard an active pickup you've enjoyed, does that mean you've owned active pickups, or just listened to recording of them or maybe played them in the store? If only the latter, I would probably recommend finding a used EMG 81 and wiring harness on the cheap and at least giving it a shot. but I'm an EMG 81 whore, so your mileage may vary...

[EVOLVIST]

you'd be surprised. but you have to turn up the gain. I play death metal with a J-50BC pickup, which is paf-level output.

also when you say you haven't heard an active pickup you've enjoyed, does that mean you've owned active pickups, or just listened to recording of them or maybe played them in the store? If only the latter, I would probably recommend finding a used EMG 81 and wiring harness on the cheap and at least giving it a shot. but I'm an EMG 81 whore, so your mileage may vary...

I've got a J-50BC in my Charvel Model 6, which has the mid-boost built in. It's the stock pickup and yes, I love it. But I thought it was much hotter than a PAF.

Anyway, EMGs, yeah, I've played with them many times, since my other guitar player has an ESP and a Dean with 81s in the bridge. I cringe every time he reaches for one of those guitars. Haha! To be fair, though, I like the EMGs for big distorted chords. They always articulate well. It's just the single note riffage and major 5ths that I don't care for.

Just as a point of reference, I don't play death metal, but I play thrash/progressive (sometimes) metal, with pretty heavy and tight riffs, sometimes with down tuning, but only standard down tuning, and nothing lower than C# standard. Mostly it's all in standard E. I like to both blend and slave amps a lot, between my Mesa/Boogie Mark V, EVH III EL34 50 watt, Fender M80, and Orange Rockerverb MkIII 100.

[metalhobo]

I've got a J-50BC in my Charvel Model 6, which has the mid-boost built in. It's the stock pickup and yes, I love it. But I thought it was much hotter than a PAF.

the winding is about the same as the paf. the ceramic magnet is likely a bit stronger than the alnico 5 magnet of a real paf, which will increase output, but really not by that much. with the midboost disengaged it really is a low output pickup. of course, output can vary from pickup to pickup and even from guitar to guitar.

[Razor]

Throw a J90C in one. My best friend has one with a JB and I have to admit is sounds killer. I have a Predator and a Model 2 with a J90C and damn they're just awesome. I also have another Model 2 with and EMG 81 that sounds bad ass too. IMHO the J90C is hard as hell to beat.

The J50BC in my Model 4 sounds a bit dull even with the mid boost on. Not bad mind you but a different tone for sure.

[paranoid]

Add a mid boost

[Bert]

I had an '86 Charvel Model 4 that also sounded "dull" no matter what pickup I put in it, especially on the low E string. Some guitars just lack that resonance that makes them sing....

Is it also dull when unplugged?