Pinch Harmonics

[Rexx Engineering]

I'm a newbie here. In the last few months, I got two new Charvels. This is after a lifetime of playing Les Pauls and SSS strats. Love the guitars. One is a DK24 and one is a San Dimas Style 1. I am enjoying both though they are very different animals. Both have the stock pickups. JB in the SD and Full Shred in the Dinky. I have noticed that it's much harder for me to nail full throated pinch harmonics on the San Dimas. On the Dinky, they seem to just jump off the strings with no effort. On the San Dimas, it takes much more precision to find them and I miss half the time. Is this the pickups, or is it the fact that the Dinky is 24 frets, so things are oriented differently? Is it the Floyd Rose on the SD (the Dinky has a Gotoh 510). This is my first guitar with a Floyd Rose. They are both 25.5" scale, so the bridge pickup should be in the same place relative to the overall string length. Thoughts?

[Dak]

That is an interesting question as I have had similar issues. I think you can rule out the Floyd as all but one of my guitars has a Floyd or Floyd derivative like A JT-590( Schaller Floyd with cast baseplate and steel knife edge inserts). My guitar that does P.H. the best has a JT-590 on it. The one that does them the worst similar to what you describe on your San Dimas also has a JT-590. Bothe are Fusion models with 24.75" scale lengths. Pick-ups aren't the same. the one that does well has a Duncan Designed/Ibanez distortion the other a S.D. Invader. I have an Invader in another guitar that does P.H. ok. I also have others guitars in 25.5" scale that I can hit P.H. on well. One has a Jackson J90C, a Duncan Designed distortion and a SD hotrails, and SD JB( but the JB is angled in a Kramer). It seems in my experience the problem follows the guitar more than the pickup but having a hot pickup helps. As the one that was hardest taking the JB out and putting in an Invader helped. Putting that JB in a different guitar(Kramer 25.5" scale it does P.H. just fine. All that to say I'm as confused about it as you are. Sorry I'm not much help.

[MartinBarre]

Try a lighter set of strings. The JB is also a great pickup for pinch harmonics so that might have a little to do with it but I can do pinch harmonics on an acoustic, it's mostly just about the technique. Floppier strings definitely help though.

[john.w.lawson]

Try a lighter set of strings. The JB is also a great pickup for pinch harmonics so that might have a little to do with it but I can do pinch harmonics on an acoustic, it's mostly just about the technique. Floppier strings definitely help though.

It's all about attack

[ASentientDKA8]

I understand where you are coming from.

1. As john said, It's all/mostly about Attack. I find that i get better results with thicker picks, maybe consider using a 1.5-3mm. I am a HUGE fan of Dunlop's jazz picks and big-stubby's for this reason. But hey, maybe you are different? ( I will come back to this in point 3)

2. In my experience, pickups and gain make a HUGE difference. There is a plethora of technical reasons why, but the simple answer is Frequency Response (AFAIK) Chances are your SD and Dinky have different p/ups, which means a different response curve. For example: I have a (now disassembled and in need of a re-fret ) MIJ RG7620 with a Dimarzio EVO in it, and it is hands down an absolute MONSTER for pinch-harmonics, more so than my D-activator loaded guitars, my active-p/up guitars, or my JB loaded guitars. Try experimenting with different knob-settings on your amp and axes, use more gain, add an EQ pedal to your Rig.

3. You are dead on about the difference between 22 and 24 fret guitars. I am sure like most of us, you've noticed that each string has a "sweet spot" depending on what p/up you are using and which position your selector-switch is in. Just experiment until you find the spot where it pops and build up muscle memory like a violinst. As an aside, I find that .88mm's give me better results on my Schecter Blackjack V and NJ-Deluxe Warbeast, whereas the thicker picks do better on my jacksons? Why? I have no clue, They are all 25.5 scale lengths, but it probably has to do with how each body sits in relation to my posture as well as the aforementioned factors in point number 2.

[Dak]

3. You are dead on about the difference between 22 and 24 fret guitars.

As far as the bridge pickup goes there should be no difference between 22 or 24 fret guitars given both are the same scale length. On his guitars it's 25.5" from nut to bridge saddles( approx. as where the saddle sits for intonation purposes will change it slightly) regardless of the number of frets on the neck. So if you are on the bridge pickup # of frets makes no difference. Now for the neck pickup there is a difference because it is shifted closer to the bridge to create room for those extra two frets. How much difference has been debated for years.

[ASentientDKA8]

As far as the bridge pickup goes there should be no difference between 22 or 24 fret guitars given both are the same scale length. On his guitars it's 25.5" from nut to bridge saddles( approx. as where the saddle sits for intonation purposes will change it slightly) regardless of the number of frets on the neck. So if you are on the bridge pickup # of frets makes no difference. Now for the neck pickup there is a difference because it is shifted closer to the bridge to create room for those extra two frets. How much difference has been debated for years.

Fair enough, I see that i missed the part where he mentions his pickup configs. With that in mind, i think the primary culprit here is frequency response plus a handful of physical phenomena. My wild-ass-guess is that his attack angle might change in ways that aren't immediately noticeable due to posture or how he rests his hand when switching from the DK24s strat-style bridge to the floyd. Theoretically, you are right, the amount of frets shouldn't matter but my guess is that changes in perception, posture, feel, etc, are contributing to unconscious alterations in playing style. I say this primarily because i experienced something similar back around 2009 when deciding between an RR3 and a JB-swapped RR24. (I went with the RR3 because OMG RED ERIE DESS SWIRL! Plus to this day i rarely play past the 20th fret anyways)


If i was going to put money on ANYTHING though, it would be the differences in frequency response between the SH4 and SH10. Going off of the limited-info on SD's website, it seems the SH4 has a higher response towards treble frequencies, which will (hypothetically) do a better job of bringing out those harsher high-end overtones of a pinch harmonic.

[neptoess]

Setup related things. Intonation. Make sure it’s spot on on both guitars. Pickup height, too close and the magnets dampen the string’s sustain. Action, if it’s too low and you’ve got a slight buzz, they’ll get choked out.

If you get those dialed in, you should be able to get good harmonics out totally unplugged (if not, work on your technique). If they’re ringing out nice and clear, then you can start thinking about pickup related tomfoolery. But I’ve gotten awesome pinches out of alnico iii custombuckers into a tweed combo. Pretty much any SD should be quite capable of picking up pinch harmonics.

[pianoguyy]

I disagree with intonation being relevant to getting a PH.
A string doesn't know what intonation is, therefore doesn't care if it is correct. It just puts out a tone based on its length from the fret to the saddle.

The positioning of where you get a harmonic/pinch harmonic may be at a different place if intonation is off, but the harmonic still exists.

[neptoess]

100% agree pianoguyy . The reason I mentioned intonation was that OP said "it takes much more precision to find them and I miss half the time" on his San Dimas compared to his DK24. Both guitars are the same scale length, so, if he's running the same string gauge and tuning, and the intonation is set correctly on both guitars, the harmonics should exist at the same point on the string. The width of the harmonic nodes are the same between both guitars too, so, if you're actually aiming at the right spot, it shouldn't require any more precision on one guitar vs the other. I learned on a Gibson scale guitar, and, when I got my RG, had the same feeling. Turns out I was actually just aiming in the wrong spot, because I was used to the Gibson scale. I also noticed it when playing around with serious downtuning, e.g. swapping from 9-42 in E to 13-62 in Bb. After adjusting the intonation, the saddles are much further back for the heavier gauge set, and the harmonics all moved back accordingly, so I had to adjust my aim.