Which came first the Charvel or Jackson headstock?

[Jackson-Charvel]

I am betting the San Dimas Charvels were the first headstock sporting a Charvel logo. I read the history of Wayne Charvel and Grover Jackson over at JacksonCharvelworld.net and it didn't explain when the first Jackson headstocks were made, and what separated them from Charvels. I know in 1985 or 1986 is when ALL Charvels were made in Japan while all Jacksons till the late 80's early 90's were USA made. But I don't think that was the birth of Jackson in 1986 as I knew there were Jacksons before then as I ragged my cousin for getting a jap made Model 4 at the time in 1986.

Between 1980-1985 how many Jacksons were made and what separated Jacksons and Charvels during that period of time?

Another unrelated question is did Wayne Charvel have any input with the company once he sold Grover Jackson the company in 1979? I learned alot on this forum so far, I always assumed they were partners throughout the 80's and 90's.

[straycat]

Re: Which came first the Charvel or Jackson headstock?

I had the next to last San Dimas Charvel ser# 5490 it was completed Jan 86' and had a Jackson logo on a strat headstock.I think RR got the first Jackson logo'd guitar in 83'

[pro-fusion]

Re: Which came first the Charvel or Jackson headstock?

As far as I know, the first guitar to sport the "Jackson" name--and also the first to have the pointy headstock--was the prototype made for Randy Rhoads in late '81/early '82 (I can't remember exactly when it was). Up to that point, all of the company's production guitars had been called Charvels and had strat-style headstocks. The company's guitars were all made in the San Dimas shop until late 1986. The Charvels switched to the Jackson pointy headstock in 1983 to avoid a trademark lawsuit by Fender over the use of the strat headstock. Full production of Jackson guitars started in 1983--a few years after the company started making Charvels.

Prior to the opening of the Japanese shop in 1986, the main distinguishing factor between Jacksons and Charvels was that Jacksons were neckthrus and Charvels were bolt-ons--though there are exceptions on both sides of that, I believe. Some of the very last San Dimas Charvels bolt-ons in late '86 were actually given Jackson headstock logos, even though the neckplates still said "Charvel"--I think the shop ran out of Charvel logos or something like that. After the Japanese shop opened in 1986--all the USA guitars were called Jacksons and all the Japanese guitars were called Charvels until 1990.

Wayne Charvel didn't participate at all in the company after he sold to Grover Jackson, I believe. He went on to consult for Gibson, and has started a couple of other small guitar shops over the years.

You should do some searches on this board--a lot of this has been explained in far more detail before.

[ June 12, 2004, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: pro-fusion ]

[RacerX]

Re: Which came first the Charvel or Jackson headstock?

Although that was an excellent summary, pro-fusion! [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

[lerxstcat]

Re: Which came first the Charvel or Jackson headstock?

The 2003 catalog says Randy brought them his drawings of the "Concorde" in December 1980 and got his prototype two months later (Feb 1981?). He died in March 1982 in the plane crash.

[Greg Crowe]

Re: Which came first the Charvel or Jackson headstock?

Not all pre-pointy San Dimas Charvel headstocks were stratheads. This was a custom shop and they'd do just about anything. We've seen Gibson Flying V and Explorer headstocks and even Fender Tele headstocks.

A common misconception was that Randy's "Concorde" was the first neck-thru model Charvel/Jackson guitar. It wasn't. Vic Vergat had 3 neck-thru pointy V's made, with at least 2 of them before Randy's first guitar. Vic often referred to them as Charvels.

[Hamner1]

Re: Which came first the Charvel or Jackson headstock?

I would think the first logoed headstock would be Charvel given that the company was Charvel before the making of the Rhoads "Concorde". As stated above, Randy's guitar was the first to sport a Jackson logo along with the pointy headstock.

Now if you want to be picky, going by the subject line, the Jackson headstock came first. Given that the Jackson headstock was an original design, and the Strathead was a Fender design. I think the Psuedo Strathead Charvel headstock appeared in the early to mid '90s. That's at least 10 years after the Jackson headstock first appeared.

[Jim Shine]

Re: Which came first the Charvel or Jackson headstock?

Originally posted by Jackson-Charvel:
Between 1980-1985 how many Jacksons were made and what separated Jacksons and Charvels during that period of time?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jacksons went into production in 1983. Whate initially seperated the Charvels from the Jacksons through most of that 1983-1985 era was Charvels were bolt ons and Jacksons were neckthroughs.

[Jackson-Charvel]

Re: Which came first the Charvel or Jackson headstock?

Thanks everyone for your thorough answers about the history of the company. Some of that info should be added to the FAQ of the history over at CharvelJacksonworld.net for a more complete history.

[Jackal]

Re: Which came first the Charvel or Jackson headstock?

Yep Randy Rhoads had the first "pointy" Jackson headstock in December of 1980 it refined on his black V & and by the time he passed away it changed into what you see today.
The final prototype for Randy was on the bench semi-finished when he passed on. Where is that Ivory colored one that was sold off at NAMM anyway's?
Why has it eluded us for so long????!!

[Tekky]

Re: Which came first the Charvel or Jackson headstock?

Originally posted by Jackal:
Yep Randy Rhoads had the first "pointy" Jackson headstock in December of 1980 it refined on his black V & and by the time he passed away it changed into what you see today.
The final prototype for Randy was on the bench semi-finished when he passed on. Where is that Ivory colored one that was sold off at NAMM anyway's?
Why has it eluded us for so long????!!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I believe that it has eluded us for so long is that part of that story is urban legend.

[Jackal]

Re: Which came first the Charvel or Jackson headstock?

Well here's a picture of the "Urban Legend"
So where is it?

[Tekky]

Re: Which came first the Charvel or Jackson headstock?

I said part of the story is urban legend. As far as what guitar that is, I'm not sure.

[fred dons]

Re: Which came first the Charvel or Jackson headstock?

didn't vinnie vincent get that one ?
I read in an 1983 interview that he was given
some protoypes of this model
(and if he did he probably had it repainted in shocking pink [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] )

I did remember seeing one of Vinnies RR in pink which he just had bumped against Gene's Axe (it was Brussels, Vorst National 1982 or 83 which has a very dark backstage area [img]graemlins/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] ) and it suddenly showed some gold paint when the pink paints was removed (which was a pitty I really liked his gold one)

[Sunbane]

Re: Which came first the Charvel or Jackson headstock?

The "Urban legend" Rhoads is also known as the "NAMM Rhoads", because it was sold to a person by mistake at the NAMM show, and it has never resurfaced since. It's not the same as Vinnie's old gold sparkle (later pink) one. That one had a trem for one thing, while the NAMM Rhoads didn't, and was probably custom built for Vinnie from an existing body blank.