Popular myths about Charvel and Jackson guitars

[Jack Napalm]

Re: Popular myths about Charvel and Jackson guitar

That's an awesome read. Very nice.

[guitar geek]

Re: Popular myths about Charvel and Jackson guitar

Randy RHOADS, not RHOADES..... but if not for that tiny typo [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img], great story!

Harrald

[mm2002]

Re: Popular myths about Charvel and Jackson guitar

Admins: Please post Hossmans story as a sticky. That is the best history I've ever read in short form. People should have to read that as a prerequisite to becoming a JCF member! Good stuff Hossman!! [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

[RacerX]

Re: Popular myths about Charvel and Jackson guitar

Uh, after a proofread...which I will volunteer to do! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[nonamemx]

Re: Popular myths about Charvel and Jackson guitar

Nah-uh, my Model 1A is 100% Charvel [img]/images/graemlins/eviltongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Newc]

Re: Popular myths about Charvel and Jackson guitar

So Charvel makes Warmoth necks and bodies now? Or is Warmoth making Charvels now?
I'm bumfuzzled [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Great post, Hoss - FINALLY someone put it all in line like I've been trying to find (and not have to buy a book full of spite and venom)

Newc

[Jim Shine]

Re: Popular myths about Charvel and Jackson guitar

So, no Fender guitars have been made since September 9th 1965? No Gibsons in perhaps 100 years? G&L since '93? I understand the story, but have a hard time swallowing that the company was no longer 'really' Charvel after Wayne sold it off. How many companies are still owned and operated by their original owners? Besides, other than EVH chances are any Charvels guys owned, played or drooled over in music stores were Grover era Charvels.

[Toby]

Re: Popular myths about Charvel and Jackson guitar

Myth: USA Charvels and Jacksons are great guitars, but they are overpriced.

Fact: All USA Charvels and Jacksons are hand built. Both custom orders and production models are built in the same shop, by the same craftsmen, the same production methods and at the same excellent quality. The people seem not to be aware that every Standard USA prodcution model is built at the custom shop, but because of they are standard models and no custom orders, they are not labelled as custom shop models. Even real Charvel/Jackson custom orders cost less than the pseudo "custom shop" mass production models of some other manufacturers. Some of the pseudo custom shops are not even able to buld custom orders, or they are 3x as expensice as a real Charvel/Jackson custom order.

[Toby]

Re: Popular myths about Charvel and Jackson guitars

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Jackson copied ESP designs and HS... That is one I hear all the time.

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Fact: ESP is copying Charvel/Jackson. I think, ESP wants to be Charvel/Jackson and is angry to be only an imitation and not the original.
Here in Europe, most metal guitarists associate metal guitars with ESP first and then with Ibanez. Many metal guitar kids only know ESP and Ibanez, but neither know Charvel/Jackson nor know that C/J are the originals and ESP and Ibanez only are copies. ESP and Ibanez have very aggressive marketing and endorsing. Here in Europe, if you see metal magazines, watch video clips, or see concerts, most guitar sightings are ESP and Ibanez, and Charvel/Jacksons are relatively rare sightings. Most of the popular metal guitarists in Europe are endorsed by ESP or Ibanez. The kids see only ESP and Ibanez, but no Charvels or Jacksons, so they want ESP and Ibanez, but no C/J.

[hippietim]

Re: Popular myths about Charvel and Jackson guitars

Saying Ibanez and ESP are mere copies of Charvel/Jacksons is just like saying a Charvel is a mere copy of a Fender.

All guitar companies borrow ideas. All of them. Including Fender and Gibson. Including Charvel/Jackson. There are a number of Ibanez and ESP guitars that are very unique.

Ibanez offers many things that I don't think Jackson ever has in a production model - things like archtops, piezo equipped guitars, MIDI support.

ESP has come along with quite a few of their own body styles along the way - not all good but some sure are. Like Ibanez, ESP has a broad appeal because they make a broader range of instruments - in addition to super strats (or whatever you want to call them) they have baritones, 7-strings, telecasters, and semi-hollow bodies in their production lines.

[shreddermon]

Re: Popular myths about Charvel and Jackson guitar

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I understand the story, but have a hard time swallowing that the company was no longer 'really' Charvel after Wayne sold it off. How many companies are still owned and operated by their original owners?

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I totally agree. To imply that anything built after Wayne left isn't a "real" Charvel and that Charvel basically "ceased to exist" in 1986, is quite the overstatement.

Charvel is/was a manufacturing company, a brand, a style. Wayne may have started it all, but it is a sum of the efforts of many talented and hard-working people through the years, evolving many times, including the changes of ownership. Surely Wayne's efforts should not be dismissed - no doubt they were very important. But everything manufactured by Charvel - good, bad, or ugly - is a "real" Charvel, including the post-86 import line, mid-90s reissues, and current/new products.

Otherwise, Hoss, it's an awesome history. Thanks. [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

[Toby]

Re: Popular myths about Charvel and Jackson guitars

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Saying Ibanez and ESP are mere copies of Charvel/Jacksons is just like saying a Charvel is a mere copy of a Fender. All guitar companies borrow ideas. All of them. Including Fender and Gibson. Including Charvel/Jackson. There are a number of Ibanez and ESP guitars that are very unique.

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I agree that Charvel copied some Fender and Gibson body styles from Fender. But Charvel improved the Fender designs with lots a innovations like rear routing, thinner and wider neck profiles and oiled neck finishes, jumbo frets, hotter pickups, new pickup combinations and switchings, graphics, custom shop philosophy, etc etc. Evene if the Charvels are inspired by Fenders and Gibsons, Charvel created with these guitars a completely new identity. Jackson also created many of their own body styles.
ESP is not only copying body styles, they also copy all the Charvel/Jackson improvements like the necks, the graphics, the custom shop philosophy, the identity ... and they poach original Charvel/Jackson players to endorse ESP.

[Toby]

Re: Popular myths about Charvel and Jackson guitar

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I understand the story, but have a hard time swallowing that the company was no longer 'really' Charvel after Wayne sold it off

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As far as I understand, Wayne was never involved in the real Charvel guitars. Wayne sold the company without ever having built Charvel guitars. He only sold parts and Boogie Bodies kits. The building of the first real Charvels started by Grover Jackson, after Wayne already left the company.

[Newc]

Re: Popular myths about Charvel and Jackson guitar

Toby - re-read Hossman's post - Wayne built and logoed bodies and necks with Charvel logos on them before selling to Grover.

Newc

[John C]

Re: Popular myths about Charvel and Jackson guitar

Newc - I know I'm a newbie here but I have done a lot of research on the beginnings of the "California Custom" guitar indudustry, mostly on the Schecter/Anderson/etc. side of the house, not the Charvel/Jackson side of the house. However, I don't see anything in Hossman's post about Wayne making bodies and necks for Grover; just, as I have also found in my research, that Wayne was involved "hands-on" on only a handful of guitars and serialized production started after he had sold out to Grover. Of course, two of those were the parts for the original EVH Frankenstrat and VHII guitars. I can also confirm the Tom Anderson connection - Tom posted about it on the andersonforum.com last summer.

Only one quibble with Hossman's story - technically, the "Charvel" name wasn't sold to overseas concerns; Grover recapitalized the company with overseas investors. There was actually a name change from "Charvel/Jackson Mfg." to "Jackson/Charvel"; from what I recall from a Guitar Player article (circa 1986/87) was that Grover needed funds to capitalize his expansion - i.e. the Ontario shop. He let the "Charvel" name go to the imports and, as many others have said, changed the U.S. bolt-ons to the "Jackson" name.

If you really want to play "six degrees of guitar separation" you can connect most of the current custom builders back to Schecter - I can connect Don Grosh with them in 3 steps.

John C.