Price disclosure question

[Jacksonite]

Re: Price disclosure question

because prices under MAP are not to be discussed in public forums. I think its stupid too, but I know some people that have gotten in trouble with other companies

[MikeStrat]

Re: Price disclosure question

Since finding this board, I have also been introduced to some new dealers. I have contacted a couple and quickly been turned off by some of the intial price quotes. And it doesn't appear like they are willing to budge. I guess they have enough people that are willing to pay top dollar. I've walked away from a couple guitars lately because of this. It seems like there could be a better way to share information without getting a dealer in trouble. If one person gets a great deal on a particular guitar, it doesn't mean that everyone is going to be interested in that guitar. However, it could mean that more people would be willing to buy if they knew that this was a "good deal" and others were getting the same deal. It would work out for both parties.

[Joe_Steeler]

Re: Price disclosure question

In my mind this is how it works:

* MAP prices are set by "X" company, some are hard numbers such as Mesa, Rivera, etc. and some are soft such as Fender, PRS, etc. where the dealer has the right to discount at will.

* "X" company recognizes "Y" dealer advertising a price by that dealer quoting a number to a customer and that customer making it public that you can freely acquire that piece of gear at that price.

* It is thewn assumed customers then will go on shopping, cautiously I might add, until they get that number. But NOT before that.

* Stock is not moving through this process and local dealers might be affected due to this "lowball" dealer quoting low prices.

* Company "X" then hears it from dealers that are not buying stock as anticipated. "Well, that SOB in Wichita is lowballing all of us and I cannot sell my Shiznit because of him". Dealer "Y" is pretty set on his sell tag.

* Company "X" strives to take the negotiation out of the game and have people buy freely as they believe no better price can be had anywhere.

Point in fact are Mesa Amps, if you want one go and get it because it is VERY hard to get anyone to even give you a 10% courtesy discount. That price is set and that is it. Very protective of dealers and stock turnover (for studied commodities) is cool since people do not haggle.
You walk out of the store with the amp feeling good since you know you couldn't do any better anywhere else.

Kind of screwed up since we live in a free, capitalistic business environment, yet some manufacturers are set on "fixing" prices.

That is my take. I would like to hear from some of our friend dealers, if they are allowed to even talk about these things.

[Jack Napalm]

Re: Price disclosure question

[ QUOTE ]
because prices under MAP are not to be discussed in public forums. I think its stupid too, but I know some people that have gotten in trouble with other companies

[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree the dealer shouldn't discuss MAP prices but Jackson should t hold the dealer responsible for consumers actions. Just seems crazy to me.

[MikeStrat]

Re: Price disclosure question

Joe - That Mesa example is excellent! I bought a M/B dual rectifier last year. Good, bad or indifferent, I walked in knowing what the deal was and walked out knowing that I could not have gotten a better deal anywhere else. I was happy. However, with these guitars, there is some negotiating room. Probably more than some know or care to admit. I'm sure it also depends on the volume of the dealer. But some of the prices I have been quoted lately are right in line with the big on-line retailers. I've frankly had better luck with the local shops. And it has nothing to do with personally knowing a dealer or salesperson. Money is money. They either want it or they don't.

[Joe_Steeler]

Re: Price disclosure question

Mike,
I wholeheartedly believe Fender will like to have a system just like MESA. Who wouldn't??!!
Isn't it sweet? Take it or leave it kinda attitude, like buying a car at Carmax, they even tell you upfront "no haggling policy".
Maybe they are working their way towards it, it will take some time as it will be controversial as all heck.
MESA is peanuts compared to FMIC.

How about PRS? they will not even let dealers advertise selling prices!
At least FMIC lets MAP.

[MikeStrat]

Re: Price disclosure question

It's not so much that I want them to be like Mesa or Carmax as it is that I want to have a good idea if I'm getting a decent deal or not. The last two guitars I bought were so different than I have found since starting on this board that I have to wonder what the hell is going on (no names or prices mentioned). People are actually paying these prices when there is room to negotiate?!? With Mesa you have no choice. With J/C you do. It's all about your perception.

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: Price disclosure question

I think that Mesa system is only implemented in the USA. Up here in Canada, I phoned two different Mesa dealers with regards to a single amp, and each gave me different prices. [img]/images/graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img]

[MikeStrat]

Re: Price disclosure question

How far apart were the prices?

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: Price disclosure question

This is going to sound idiotic on my behalf, but I honestly don't remember! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Perhaps a hundred dollars Canadian... [img]/images/graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img]

It was about five or six months ago so I don't remember. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[Newc]

Re: Price disclosure question

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, Don. Never been a big fan of Metallica. Besides, the movie's been around much longer than the song. ...Not to mention the Bible. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Cliff Burton came up with Creeping Death while they were watching The Ten Commandments.

As for CS prices, the quote you get from the online quote form is MSRP or List, not "real". Dealers will do anywhere from full price to 60% of that price (not 60% OFF, but 60% OF - 60% of $100 is $60 - 60% OFF $100 is $40), you just have to find the right dealer to go with.
However, it's not exactly like comparison shopping for a USA Select or other production model - you can't just call 3 shops and have them draw up a price quote for a Custom Shop model, as each one has to be submitted to Jackson for a quote, and they see the same thing come through for a quote 3 times and they ask the dealers if it's the same customer.
With a production model, Dealer A might have a higher price than Dealer B and Dealer C, and they might not know what each other's prices are, but for a Custom Shop quote, it doesn't really happen.
It would be nice if it did happen, because then if one dealer's doing a 60% price and another is only doing 40%, obviously you'd want to go with the 60%, but if you can't find out who's cutting the better deal....

[RacerX]

Re: Price disclosure question

And I wasn't misquoting, I adjusted the phrase to fit the sitch. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[OnlineStageGear]

Re: Price disclosure question

The MAP price structure was put into place to basicly protect the smaller dealer and even the playing field somewhat. Here's an example:

You are a small dealer and your guitar cost you $100 in the door. You are aren't greedy and set your price at $139. $39 is a decent profit on a $100 cost item.

A large retail store buys 400 of the same guitar, but after the volume discount and shipping rate, they only end up paying $75 a piece to get them in the door. To move a lot of them quickly, they price them at $95 each.

A customer walks in your door with the ad from the large retailer asking you to beat the $95 price. What are you supposed to do ?

The MAP price will eventuallywork out for the consumer in the long run. No dealer is going to buy a product knowing that a larger retailer is selling that same product for less than what you buy it for. If a manufacturer has a MAP price structure if effect, that leads to more dealers carrying the product. Which reduces price gouging and giving customers more options to find a better dealer with better service.

Matt