San Dimas vs. Ontario

[veliyasin]

Is there big difference between San Dimas and early Ontario guitars? What were the reasons for the move and what changes did the move bring about?

[xenophobe]

Re: San Dimas vs. Ontario

None really. All the employees are the same, all of the methods used to make the guitars didn't change. I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say that all of the changes that Jackson made during the early years were all progressions or evolutions that would have taken place no matter what street or PO Box address they could use.

I'm sure I'm wrong about a few things here, but I'll say what I can:

The Charvel name was licensed/sold to AMIC for import guitars, and the money was used to buy the new factory.

The only real changes were that Charvels were no longer built in the USA, and Jacksons changed logo styles. The other thing is a larger electronics cavity route, but that would have most likely happened regardless of what building they were producing them in. There were the obligatory hardware changes.... going from the Kahler, vintage trems and other pickups to JT6's and their own brand... the money from the sale probably helped.

I'm sure they got a lot of new equipment to suppliment/replace aging equipment. They also got a lot more room to work in.

From the looks of it the Glendora shop was really small, and the move to Ontario ended up with higher quality guitars. (I'll argue to the death that a 87-89 Jackson is higher quality than a 85 or 86 CJ, mostly because of the new machinery and more room to function in, which would probably make the employee's happier.. especially if some of this new cash made it's way to pay increases or bonuses)

Sometime in 1989, Grover was either forced out, or sold his portion of ownership of Jackson USA line to AMIC, who owned it until Fender bought them out.

My take on the situation. I'm sure the nitpickers will come along and shoot most of that down. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Drake S.]

Re: San Dimas vs. Ontario

San Dimas High School Foot ball RULES Ontario is going Down! [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

[Drake S.]

Re: San Dimas vs. Ontario

Damn Wrong thread [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[mulder1966]

Re: San Dimas vs. Ontario

[ QUOTE ]
all of the methods used to make the guitars didn't change

[/ QUOTE ] Jackson purchased new, better machines when they moved to Ontario, I think... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]Of course that is when the MOJO was left behind in an employee bathroom back at San Dimas. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[jgcable]

Re: San Dimas vs. Ontario

They are the same although the San Dimas made models are worth more because they made less of them.

[~K~]

Re: San Dimas vs. Ontario

[ QUOTE ]
I'll argue to the death that a 87-89 Jackson is higher quality than a 85 or 86 CJ, mostly because of the new machinery and more room to function in, which would probably make the employee's happier.. especially if some of this new cash made it's way to pay increases or bonuses

[/ QUOTE ]

Right on all counts except your a bit misguided in this statement. I wouldn't classify it as higher quality by any means.. those early guitars ARE in fact very high quality. Maybe a better term would be "consistency" due to the addition of machinery and better production methods..

In essence each guitar was exact to the last once production standards were set into place..this in no way means that the Ontario guitars are superior to the San Dimas/Glendora guitars ...

[txcharvel]

Re: San Dimas vs. Ontario

Some of the changes were major, like hardware. To me, that is the biggest difference in an Ontario guitar. You get the JT6 trem and the JT6 post inserts (that don't interchange with OFR posts). You are also stuck with the behind the nut Jackson string lock. You get Jackson electronics (even though they were around before Ontario).

Some changes were more subtle, like the phenolic cap on the headstock instead of black paint. It seems that the phenolic cap saved many a pointy headstock [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[shreddermon]

Re: San Dimas vs. Ontario

I guess I'd agree with Xeno and Kev, but with the following caveat:

The immediate post-SD era - say 87 through 89-ish - also seemed to be an era of cost cutting. I think they were trying for efficiencies here. As Xeno and Kev discuss, it helped in things like consistency, etc. But it did also end up hurting in some other areas of quality.

This was mainly reflected in hardware components. i.e., JT6 trems, in-house Jackson-branded pickups, etc. Not that those things were poor quality, per se. They were good, but not great. I'll argue all day that an Original Floyd is better than a JT6, and I prefer Duncan and Dimarzio pickups vs. Jacksons.

And, to a less extent, this strategy also extended to some other things like making graphics simpler - and, hence, cheesier. I'll take a SD-era snakeskin any day over a late 80s version.

That all said, from 90-ish on, it was all good. They went back to Schaller Floyds, and then Original Floyds again. Duncan pickups came back, paint work got better, etc. In fact, I would argue that it's fair to say that there two distinct eras while at Ontario. The immediate post-SD era and the (better quality and consistency) 90-plus era.

[Rupe]

Re: San Dimas vs. Ontario

I've owned them all and I can't say there was any noticable quality difference between them. I will say that the best finish I had was on an '88 Soloist. I didn't care for the JT-6 trem as much as a real Floyd, but I don't think they're as bad as some people say. I hated the Jackson electronics but that was always an easy fix.

I would agree with Kev on his consistancy comment as well.

[RacerX]

Re: San Dimas vs. Ontario

[ QUOTE ]
From the looks of it the Glendora shop was really small,

[/ QUOTE ]

Anybody actually been there? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I have, and it's not all that huge. Basically a unit in an industrial park building. I think we should have a JCF meet there, if only to get some mojo [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I got the address around here somewhere....

[xenophobe]

Re: San Dimas vs. Ontario

[ QUOTE ]
Right on all counts except your a bit misguided in this statement. I wouldn't classify it as higher quality by any means.. those early guitars ARE in fact very high quality. Maybe a better term would be "consistency" due to the addition of machinery and better production methods..


In essence each guitar was exact to the last once production standards were set into place..this in no way means that the Ontario guitars are superior to the San Dimas/Glendora guitars ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Kevin, you're right. Quality was a poor choice for words. Consistency is really what I meant.

Pat, I can't disagree with you there either, but just about every Floyded 87-89 Jackson I've ever played on were absolute dream guitars.

[RacerX]

Re: San Dimas vs. Ontario

Here it is:

Charvel Mfg
2011 E. Gladstone
Unit E
Glendora, CA

[Mr. Poon]

Re: San Dimas vs. Ontario

[ QUOTE ]
Pat, I can't disagree with you there either, but just about every Floyded 87-89 Jackson I've ever played on were absolute dream guitars.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree!!! [img]/images/graemlins/band.gif[/img]

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: San Dimas vs. Ontario

it's as dramatic as night and day. San Dimas is super-dupee cool and Ontario Canada made Jacksons are plywood bunk of guitars made by beer drinkin idiots, at least thats what people like to believe [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] The Fort Worth TX USA Custom shop smokes them both imho [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]