Jackson/Charvel Finishes Catalog

[MikeStrat]

I stopped by local guitar shop today and saw they had new Jackson/Charvel standard and custom finishes brochures sitting on the counter. So, I grabbed one since hey won't be there long. I guess we all know that they are discontinuing some of the colors/graphics. Now I may catch some shit for saying this but remember this is coming from a die hard JC lover. Most of these graphics kind of suck. Out of 72 options, I would only consider buying maybe 6-8 of them. I mean they got rid of Cherry Sunburst and kept Bikini Beach. Blue and Yellow Spiral Checkerboard??? Is the band Autograph making a comeback? I Don't mean to offend but who the fuck is buying this shit? Let's be honest, if Crossed Swords with Letters wasn't associated with Warren DiMartini, how many people would get that graphic? It is a cool graphic but it's especially cool because Warren D used it. What research is being done before they make these decisions?

[wilkinsi]

Re: Jackson/Charvel Finishes Catalog

i'm just as furious with the ever declining colour schemes (the good ones) and just as so that only crap ones seem to remain. if you have the financial clout, then get a custom made guitar. if not, just go for a nice sounding axe. just don't settle for a colour that would make you puke. i wanted my WRMG in trans blue. the cobalt blue looks tacky so i went for trans black which doesn't show too well. i would love to have had one in the same vintage (or tobacco?) burst as seen on a custom dx1 off the jackson site. more annoying is that there is no genuine cutaway at the neck (it's the same slanted version you see on a dx10d instead) and no carved top. i've even seen pix of the WRXT for which the bevels are very exaggerated, yet are almost invisible on the real guitar.

[Matt Crooks]

Re: Jackson/Charvel Finishes Catalog

Jackson keeps track of how many of each finsh/colour gets sold every year... if a colour isn't selling they discontinue it. There was a colour last year they discontinued that several forum members said was a great colour and shouldn't be discontinued. It turned out that under 25 guitars in that colour had been sold for the year.

Say what you want about the colour that are left, but they are selling, or they'll be killed too.

[GWARGHOUL]

Re: Jackson/Charvel Finishes Catalog

How can thye discontinue cherry suburst? That is a classic beauty and a very nuetral color. Hell, CSB is awesome on a Kv2..no more????

[shreddermon]

Re: Jackson/Charvel Finishes Catalog

With all due respect to the folks making these decisions, I'm not sure that sales figures alone are the best way to determine whether finishes are popular or not with customers.

Certainly, that is the best "baselevel" to start with. But you have to remember that many dealers - especially the big chain stores - will skew their orders to "safe sale" finishes. i.e., Colors or graphics that will safely appeal to a broad audience, and won't be "peg warmers" hanging on the wall for too long waiting for the right interested buyer to come along. ...I mean, how many basic black Soloists do you think Guitar Center ordered last year? [img]/images/graemlins/eyes.gif[/img] Sure, many of those sales are legit customer color preferences. But some will also be customers who "settled" for basic black because the color didn't offend them, that's all that was in stock at the time and, when asked, the clueless salesperson told them either a) that's the only color you can get without going full custom or b) it'd take 2 years to special order a different finish. And, of course, the unknowing customer responds with "NFW, I'll settle for that black one after all".

I'm no sales/marketing guru - so apologies in advance for my educated guessing - but I would think that other factors should be looked into, as well. For instance, do the total sales have a strong correlation to the subset of sales that were special ordered directly by customers? (...Assuming they even track that.)

But the bottom line rub for me was more the fact that they slashed the number of available finishes in half. And, of course, that meant that many of my own favorites were discontinued. That was really disappointing.

[MikeStrat]

Re: Jackson/Charvel Finishes Catalog

I would be suprised if they weren't basing their decsions on sales. That being said.....People are buying some fugly guitars if these are the best of the best. Why not bring back the Nagel graphics. They were better than some of this new shit!

[MikeStrat]

Re: Jackson/Charvel Finishes Catalog

[ QUOTE ]
How can thye discontinue cherry suburst? That is a classic beauty and a very nuetral color.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amber Sunburst, Burnt Cherry Sunburst(which I thought was very cool),Rasberry Burst, Faded Wine Red, Tobacco Sunburst, Mahogany and more are all gone. At least they kept "Pinup Girl on Phone" and "Dollars". I mean WTF!!

The only and I mean ONLY new cool trans color they have is Trans Amber Flame. Not exciting but new for Jackson.

[shreddermon]

Re: Jackson/Charvel Finishes Catalog

Burnt Cheer 'Burst is still available. Trans amber is not. Pin up girls and dollars are custom only.

Sounds like you're referring to the available colors/finishes flyer. That's basically a "anything goes for custom orders" list, including standard finishes. And there's a lot that's available that isn't shown there. They'll do almost anything on a custom order.

For the available finishes on the USA Select / USA Standard production guitars, you've got to look at the respective Jackson and Charvel price lists. (...That's what I was talking about.)

[MikeStrat]

Re: Jackson/Charvel Finishes Catalog

You are correct that some of these are "custom" graphics. But they are still basically production graphics. I'm just looking at this from the perspective of the guys who can't afford $3000+ for a custom shop order. I have custom shop on order that is not listed in any brochure. If you're willing to pay , you can get anything you want.

I have the 2005 Jackson catalog and this new finish brochure in hand and they are very different. Burnt Cherry Burst is not listed in the new brochure. From my experience, if it's not in the brochure, it's a true custom shop order! Which means big $$ and a long wait. I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. But thank God the "Saturn" and "Warthog" graphics are now offered. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Maybe I'm getting too old to appreciate this shit.

[shreddermon]

Re: Jackson/Charvel Finishes Catalog

[ QUOTE ]
From my experience, if it's not in the brochure, it's a true custom shop order! Which means big $$ and a long wait. I could be wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry to inform you, bro, but - yes - you're wrong. Again, look at the Jackson USA Select and Charvel USA Standard price lists on the web sites. They tell you which finishes are available on those respective "production" series guitars. And, as always, anything goes on customs.

The available finish brochure you're referring to shows both production model and custom shop finishes. Your confusion is understandable, though, as I don't believe it tells you which are which.

[RacerX]

Re: Jackson/Charvel Finishes Catalog

[ QUOTE ]

I have the 2005 Jackson catalog

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a 2005 catalog? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[MikeStrat]

Re: Jackson/Charvel Finishes Catalog

[ QUOTE ]
There's a 2005 catalog?

[/ QUOTE ]

I met a Jackson rep in a store one time and he sent it to me. Apparently, they are kind of hard to get. Don't worry, you're not missing a whole lot. There's nothing in there you haven't seen a million times already. Except there is a centerfold of Jenna holding a blue flame RR. [img]/images/graemlins/drool2.gif[/img]

[Jack Napalm]

Re: Jackson/Charvel Finishes Catalog

That's not a 2005 catalog. It's 2003 I think.

[Matt Crooks]

Re: Jackson/Charvel Finishes Catalog

[ QUOTE ]
Certainly, that is the best "baselevel" to start with. But you have to remember that many dealers - especially the big chain stores - will skew their orders to "safe sale" finishes. i.e., Colors or graphics that will safely appeal to a broad audience, and won't be "peg warmers" hanging on the wall for too long waiting for the right interested buyer to come along. ...I mean, how many basic black Soloists do you think Guitar Center ordered last year? [img]/images/graemlins/eyes.gif[/img] Sure, many of those sales are legit customer color preferences. But some will also be customers who "settled" for basic black because the color didn't offend them, that's all that was in stock at the time and, when asked, the clueless salesperson told them either a) that's the only color you can get without going full custom or b) it'd take 2 years to special order a different finish. And, of course, the unknowing customer responds with "NFW, I'll settle for that black one after all".

[/ QUOTE ]

Sales are sales. If the only colour the chains order is black, that's all Jackson will make. It doesn't matter what customers say they want, it what they actually buy that matters.

[shreddermon]

Re: Jackson/Charvel Finishes Catalog

I mostly agree Matt. Sales are sales. But "sales are ONLY sales" somewhat ignores what customers may have actually preferred instead. And if there was more available of what customers actually preferred, maybe there would've been more sales - in total - than would otherwise be the case.

If a customer walks into GC hoping to find a cherry sunburst Soloist, he's likely s**t out of luck. GC probably didn't order many, as they might not consider it a color that appeals broadly. So does he wait for 9 months to special order one, or "settle" for the black one hanging on the wall? Some customers will do the latter. And some will do endure the special order wait. And still others will just walk, and buy something else. ...But does that mean the guy who bought the black one preferred it? Not necessarily. He may have actually wanted cherry sunburst instead, but settled for black. And do the sales figures account for the guy who decided to not buy at all? No, that was a lost sale because cherry wasn't in stock.

The point is that basing decisions on sales figures alone only gives you an indirect indication of what's popular with customers. That being customer's preferences, as assumed by the dealers who actually do the ordering. With looking at some other factors - and perhaps J/C does this for all I know - they might get a better indication of what customers finish preferences actually are, as compared to what dealers think they are.

Not trying to be critical of J/C nor the dealers. Just wondering if they might've ended up with different decisions, if more factors/analysis were considered.