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  • #1

    about veneers ...

    I'm a sucker for a figured maple top. Lately I've been shopping around a bit and I'm wondering if you don't "need" a thick top for a nice result.
    I've seen a couple of veneers that look good but lack the depth that I really like. Know what I mean? If I'm not mistaken, a veneer is about .25" vs. up to .75" on more highly figured tops.

    What is your take on veneers vs. thicker tops? What effect on tone, if any, can be expected?
    And, though I know it's a matter of taste/preference, do you think the result is worth the extra cost?

    Thanks!
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  • #2
    Re: about veneers ...

    I've been reading through some search results, but please feel free to add/stress any thoughts on the subject that may not have been covered before.

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    • #3
      Re: about veneers ...

      Effect on tone is natural.

      A lot more wood = more hand in overall tonality of the guitar!

      Personally, I would never-ever-ever-ever go for a 'veneered' guitar. 3/4" or nothing in my book.

      And if anyone argues veneer is good to show the wood, but not hear it, I'd simply reply 'if that's the case the wood's not worth it to begin with'.

      -------

      Also if you don't want a top of a certain wood, you can opt for a multi-piece neck, wood in the neck has (overall) the greatest impact on the tone and sound.
      You took too much, man. Too much. Too much.

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      • #4
        Re: about veneers ...

        [ QUOTE ]
        Effect on tone is natural.

        A lot more wood = more hand in overall tonality of the guitar!

        Personally, I would never-ever-ever-ever go for a 'veneered' guitar. 3/4" or nothing in my book.

        And if anyone argues veneer is good to show the wood, but not hear it, I'd simply reply 'if that's the case the wood's not worth it to begin with'.

        -------

        Also if you don't want a top of a certain wood, you can opt for a multi-piece neck, wood in the neck has (overall) the greatest impact on the tone and sound.

        [/ QUOTE ]
        +1. If you're just going for the look factor, go veneer. If you want an impact on tone, I'd say 7/16" would be the thinnest maple top I'd go. 1/2", 5/8", 3/4" or more of a top will add a little more weight, brightness and bite to your tone.
        I feel my soul go cold... only the dead are smiling.

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        • #5
          Re: about veneers ...

          Nothing wrong with a 1/8 top. I don't like veneer tops either but most every production line import guitar is a veneer top. They have no effect on tone. However a 1/8 or 3/4 top effects tone alot more. It can brighten up a guitar or balance out a guitar made out of a more bass heavy wood such as rosewood or mahogany. IRT to custom guitars there is no reason to not get a 1/8 top. Since its only 60 bucks more. I can see 3/4 tops cause thats a pretty big upcharge, but for an archtop particularly you should be getting a 3/4 top.

          But there are situations where a 1/8 top is better such as a flat top strat (like a charvel). a 1/8 flat top looks really cool with binding or something (not natural, you want a 3/4 top for natural binding).

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          • #6
            Re: about veneers ...

            You cannot see through the maple top so for looks, it only needs to be thick enough to cover the top. I bet they go for cardboard thick veneers before long.

            My take - if you want a maple top get a Gibson Les Paul.

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            • #7
              Re: about veneers ...

              [ QUOTE ]

              You cannot see through the maple top so for looks, it only needs to be thick enough to cover the top.

              [/ QUOTE ]
              Unless its an archtop or if you have binding on the body. In my case mine is an archtop with natural binding so it had to be "3/4 top.

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              • #8
                Re: about veneers ...

                Thickness of the top determines how much activity the figuring has. Thin quilted or flamed tops will not move in the light as much as a thicker top, so you end up with what looks like dented/wrinkled wood rather than actual figuring.
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                • #9
                  Re: about veneers ...

                  Ive got these .7mm veneers I ordered for headstocks, and the figuring is quite nice! Ill post up some pics when Ive got one complete.
                  Imagine, being able to be magically whisked away to... Delaware. Hi... Im in... Delaware...

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                  • #10
                    Re: about veneers ...

                    [ QUOTE ]
                    Thickness of the top determines how much activity the figuring has. Thin quilted or flamed tops will not move in the light as much as a thicker top, so you end up with what looks like dented/wrinkled wood rather than actual figuring.

                    [/ QUOTE ]

                    [img]/images/graemlins/bs.gif[/img] Wood is not transparent, it is opaque. You cannot see into it. The figure of any given wood is in the surface, and any figuring you will see is just as pronounced if you have a full block, or shave off a 1/16" top, and the figure will be identical. You're not going to loose anything.

                    The trick to having a gorgeous top is how you dye and finish it. Most guitars with a thin laminate are never given the attention a thicker top would receive.

                    USA Selects with trans finishes use veneers. Some of the tops you'll see on them are gorgeous and making that top thicker won't do anything to improve the view.
                    The 2nd Amendment: America's Original Homeland Defense.

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                    • #11
                      Re: about veneers ...

                      I think I have to agree with Xeno on this one Newc. Get back in the lab Dr. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
                      Scott
                      Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong.

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                      • #12
                        Re: about veneers ...

                        +1 to what Xeno said. The thickness of the top has little to do with its figuring or coolness. That's determined by a rating factor. Hence, people referring to guitars with a highly figured top as being "AAAAA" or "5A", etc.

                        The thickness of the top has more to do with the tone you desire from the guitar. Generally, a thicker maple cap adds highs. But the overall tone of the guitar also includes the body wood itself. So a flamed maple top on a mahogany body will sound quite different than a flamed maple cap on alder.

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                        • #13
                          Re: about veneers ...

                          another thing about wood figure is the "chatoyance" (sp). if you sand the top to higher grades, you'll have a higher chatoyance, or the amount of moving in the light the top will do. if you stop sanding at 220, the top may not move as much as if you go up to 600. another way to bring grain out is to dye it darker than the end result and sand it back and use the final color you want to use. of course, the pattern in the wood will have the biggest impact. i don't believe a thicker top will move more, but i'm speculating. i've got 3 guitars here that all have just under 1/4" tops and they move to different degrees.
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                          • #14
                            Re: about veneers ...

                            [ QUOTE ]
                            Thickness of the top determines how much activity the figuring has.

                            [/ QUOTE ]

                            Your Jazz'R pretty much disproves this theory. The top on that moves more than almost any quilt top I've seen and it's 1/8" thick (IIRC but it's in that neighborhood).
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                            • #15
                              Re: about veneers ...

                              For me, tone takes priority over looks in terms of the actual wood, and since my overall sound is pretty bright, there aren't many scenarios where a thick maple top would benefit me much. On mahogany, maybe a 1/4" or thicker top would be fine, but that's about it for me. On a guitar made of a wood that doesn't have a very attractive grain, a veneer wouldn't be such a bad thing. I really dig transparent black tops, so a flamed veneer might work.

                              I general, I'd rather just have an ash body with trans finish. The exception would be spalted maple.
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