Why do the LTD's sell for more then the JCF guitar?

[WHATSUP]

Is there a big difference in guitar shape, quality, and workmanship between the two?

[brett8388]

Re: Why do the LTD\'s sell for more then the JCF guitar?

Yes, yes, and yes. I have 4 LTD's and had 2 JCF's. The quality on the LTD's blows the JCF's away. But, you're taking about a $3500 guitar as opposed to a $1400 (new) JCF. Since the JCF was an extremely limited run, their value should increase accordingly.

Brett

[Sephiroth]

Re: Why do the LTD\'s sell for more then the JCF guitar?

ESP's suck. Wanna pay twice as much for a Soloist or Dinky copy? Get an ESP.

I do like their import LTD's though. They have an excellent import neck-thru M301 for $600, and I wish Jackson would follow but, stubborn as mules, they're not. Jackson's neck-thru imports are always in the bad position of costing way too much for imports to where used excellent USA models can be had for the price. I just don't see why Jackson can't take a $400 DK-2, add neck-thru, and sell it for $600 to be more competitive with LTD and Ibanez's $600 neck-thru's.

[Dave L]

Re: Why do the LTD\'s sell for more then the JCF guitar?

I believe the topic refers to the Jackson Rhoads LTD, not the korean-made ESP LTDs.

[sully]

Re: Why do the LTD\'s sell for more then the JCF guitar?

as an ltd owner, and a former jcf owner, i'd say that there is a bit of a difference in a few things.... however, the main cost issue is that many people know who randy was, and to the non forum member, the jcf is almost just a rhoads... know what i mean? yeah, there was 25 jcf guitars, compared to 200 ltds, but the knowledge of what the jcf guitar is all about is limited to the board. it could just be me, but that's my opinion.

as far as body size goes, there's a huge difference. the jcf guitar is an rr1 body, the ltd is bigger, and it joins the neck at a different spot. i can say that while the jcf guitar played very nicely, and sounded amazing, i enjoyed my ltd more. however, if i could get my old jcf back, i probably would.

hope that helps,
sully

[xenophobe]

Re: Why do the LTD\'s sell for more then the JCF guitar?

And the JCF had quality issues that the LTD's most certainly do not...

I really don't believe the JCF'01 will ever rise in value much, but they should hold their value just fine.

[Metalcop]

Re: Why do the LTD\'s sell for more then the JCF guitar?

Not all of the JCF's had quality issues. Rather only a couple that gave the whole series bad press. Mine is 100% perfect, and so were most of the rest of them. I respectfully have to disagree with you, Brett. The LTDs were priced about the same as the JCF guitars when they were issued. They have increased in value now, but does the cost even have any affect on the quality of the guitar? We got a smoking good deal on the JCF's, that doesn't mean that they aren't worth twice as much as we were charged. (they are)Both series were made in the Custom Shop, probably by a lot of the same craftsmen. I know, not Mike Shannon, though. I daresay that making 200 LTD's vs 25 JCF's, I would bet there were far more quality issues with the LTD's, that have now been forgotten. I remember Larry L. talking about the whole first batch of LTD's being recalled and refinned because of yellowing paint! I know that being associated with Randy the LTD's will probably always (undeservedly) fetch more $$$ than the JCF's, but I guarantee that you will see the price of the JCF's greatly increase. BTW, I will take my JCF over any guitar with a recessed Schaller Floyd, absolute sacrilege to have put those on the LTD's! The vintage trem ones are a bit more credible, but only a bit. The true Randy reproductions are those 6 dead on guitars commissioned by Robb Lane and Mike Shannon.

[Doc Dryer]

Re: Why do the LTD\'s sell for more then the JCF guitar?

IMHO, it seems like the JCF's were ALMOST built like USA Selects...2 racks of a dozen or so - The LTD's were more TRULY CUSTOM SHOP guitars - Detail to ONE at a time, as ALL C/Js were CUSTOM SHOP until the mid-'80s...NONE were just cookie-cuttered like they became...

[xenophobe]

Re: Why do the LTD\'s sell for more then the JCF guitar?

You know, if you guys hype of the JCF'01's enough here, they just might climb in value. [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[petedz]

Re: Why do the LTD\'s sell for more then the JCF guitar?

I haven't played a LTD (and don't know that I'd care to because of the bizarre upper fret access of that design), but I'd like to say that the JCF guitars have been unfairly sold short.

They are not just RR1Ts with heavy makeup. [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Before deciding to join the fray and put down the deposit on one, I spent a lot of time playing a USA Select because I sorta fell prey to that misconception. I thought...sure, the specs are a little different, but for the most part it will be the same guitar.

How is it different? It sounds in-f'n-credible. Something about the combination of the construction and the pickup choice just makes this guitar sound gigantic. I guess some of the collectors around here are pretty jaded, but if guitars that sound this good are easy to come by, somebody please tell me where! (...and I have played many current and 80s Jacksons.) The neck is very fat--almost like a classical guitar neck, but the guitar feels fast. I don't have any trouble getting around on it.

As widely reported, there were quality issues on some guitars in the series. All that was wrong with mine was a bit of clearcoat missing from the long wing tip. I understand that some others were not that lucky. I guess that makes the ones without issues even more special. (Apologies to those who suffered.)

Anyway, these guitars are worth way more than they were purchased for, and mine is not going to be available for sale at any price. [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

[sully]

Re: Why do the LTD\'s sell for more then the JCF guitar?

well, unless i got totally hosed when i bought my ltd, my jcf guitar was about $700 less than the ltd.

i do have to say that while my jcf guitar had issues, it was corrected very well by the factory. doc, i totally disagree about the cookie cutter statement; the jcf guitars did have a handmade feel to them....there were many differences, construction-wise between the RR1Ts and the jcf guitars. the jcfs were made a few at a time, just like the ltds were, just like any other custom run. care was taken on most, and i agree with jeff, most of the guitars were perfect.
i will also say that we got some cool options on them too; i know that the inlays on mine were highly figured, and i'm guessing i wasn't the only one.

and yeah, they sound amazing and huge. while they both have the same pickup config, they sound much different. both guitars sound wonderful, though.
if i hadn't needed to move my jcf, i'd still have it.

sully

[ February 14, 2003, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: jsullysix ]

[xenophobe]

Re: Why do the LTD\'s sell for more then the JCF guitar?

I never said that they weren't great guitars. Pretty much, every Jackson USA I've owned or played has been a great guitar in it's own rights....

But to think that the JCF'01 will rise in value like the LTDs is a pipe dream to say the least.

[brett8388]

Re: Why do the LTD\'s sell for more then the JCF guitar?

If quality was equal, why is the gold on my JCF tarnishing and pitting badly, while all the gold on my LTD's are still perfect? And you can't blame it on playwear, because I don't really play these anyway.

Brett

[ February 14, 2003, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: brett8388 ]

[petedz]

Re: Why do the LTD\'s sell for more then the JCF guitar?

You don't play it enough. [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] (Mine gets played regularly and the hardware is mint. [img]graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img] )

[Metalcop]

Re: Why do the LTD\'s sell for more then the JCF guitar?

Brett, thats odd about your hardware. I know that the bridges on the JCF's are real brass, not gold plated. Is that what is tarnishing? The rest of the hardware on both JCF's and LTDs' should be identical, gold plated tuners, knobs, jack plates etc. I strongly disagree with Doc's statement. The JCF's may have been built like the Select series, but those new Jackson Selects are fantastic! I am extremely doubtful that the LTD's were each handbuilt customs. All 200 of them!? [img]graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img] I'm sure the LTD's were built assembly line style as well, they had to be, or they would still be cranking them out to reach the 200 mark. lol
Xeno - I don't want to get into this again with you, but respectfully, your posts on this thread have 'sour grapes' tones to me. The JCF guitars are great guitars, mine plays like a full blown handbuilt custom. They don't need hype, I'm sure that they will skyrocket in price. Just look at the LTD's and the Polka dot guitars. And there were only 25 JCF's made. Collectors also agree, I know that Dave Ingram is snapping them up, what does he have 3, now? Brett you have 2 don't you? Not that I even care, mine too is NOT for sale at any price. Never will be. I'm sticking with my original assessment, the JCF's are better guitars than the LTD's, but they will never be worth as much. Randy still has a lot of influence on us guitar players even 20 years after his passing.

[ February 14, 2003, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: Metalcop ]