great white band/night club fire

[sevser]

Re: great white band/night club fire

[img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] Just horrible....

They gota make fire restrictions so people are not trapped like this! I pisses me off cuz I know how businesses push the boundaries of Maximum capacity. We do it here. When the fire Marshall says no more than x amount of people per exit there is a reason and if the fire spread that quick than obviously there were materials that should not have been used. SH!T there are tones of fire ret ardent materials out there to build with.

[dinkyjacksonman]

Re: great white band/night club fire

This is getting the worst.
I believe Great White is supposed to open up for Whitesnake tour in Europe and shoot a live DVD there too.

check this picture.This is not just a fire.
More like July 4th fireworks.



I am feeling very sad for this [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[ February 21, 2003, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: dinkyjacksonman ]

[Accept2]

Re: great white band/night club fire

In the history of clubs catching fire there is one constant that remains. There is not much difference in the before and after shots of the buildings. They are alwasy run down, and as Jack Russell stated, there were no fire extinguishers. How can anyone pass inspection on a building that burns down in 3 minutes? These clubs will always be around, collecting large fees from patrons, and put the profits up their nose. As soon as something like this happens, they always pass the buck. If there was extinguishers on the stage, it would have meant a soaked Jack Russell, maybe some damaged equipment, and thats about it. But even with extinguishers, this place still looked like a total dump, and I'd really like to hear from the building and fire inspectors on this one........

[RacerX]

Re: great white band/night club fire

Tour Rider thread

http://www.jcfonline.com/cgi-bin/ult...&f=17&t=000672

[~K~]

Re: great white band/night club fire

It's now being reported that Murder charges are possible but their not saying who would be charged ...

[Ozzman]

Re: great white band/night club fire

This is sad.
But thousands of people die everyday in third world countrys because they're deprived of basic human rights. Who's crying for them?
I don't mean to take away from this tragedy. But I find it interesting how people all of a sudden care when its close to them.

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: great white band/night club fire

I'd say it's only because it's harder to relate.

Many of my friends, and I myself have been in situations like that club hundreds of times.... It hits home to think it could EASILY be me or my friends.

Although I feel for the people involved in the atrocities that the third world peoples have suffered, I have a hard relating to to it as a pampered American that lives in a generally safe environment, I guess. This just hits home.

I know you read every day about a disco nightclub in Asia or South America burning up and killing people. But, this hits closer for some reason...

I'm in American clubs like that every weekend and will never set foot in a Columbian disco...

Death is sad regardless of where it occurs my friend... We can just all relate to this on a more personal level is all I'm saying I guess...

[ February 22, 2003, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Cleveland Metal ]

[pro-fusion]

Re: great white band/night club fire

That's human nature, Ozzman.

It was Stalin, I believe, who said something along the lines of "100 deaths are a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic." That's the way we're wired--death is an abstraction until it hits close to home.

And yes, this one hit real close to home for me, even though I've never been anywhere near Rhode Island. GW was supposed to play Jaxx, here in Virginia, last night. And Jaxx, though a great club, is a lot like the Station, from the sound of things. Although I'm not a big GW fan, let's face it, it could have been any one of us in that club--and the people who died are probably just like the majority of posters here.

As far as the band's word vs. the club's word on permission to use pyro, I can only say that club owners, as a group, are not the most trustworthy bunch. So I tend to believe the bands' word over that of the club. Regardless, this is a senseless disaster.

[pro-fusion]

Re: great white band/night club fire

As far as the contract rider goes, that might be determinative in a civil legal action between the band and the club, but the state attorney general is looking into criminal charges--and if the club told the band "no problem" about the pyro, then it's the club owners that would likely be charged, not the band, regardless of what the rider says. Likewise, if the band went ahead and used the pyro after having been denied permission, then it's going to be their asses on the line.

But if the issue wasn't brought up at all, then I can see the prosecutor only going for a lesser charge than the potential murder or manslaughter charges that have been bandied about. There will probably be more political pressure to charge the band, because they are "evil heavy metal musicians" and not residents of the state, even though both band and club are potentially criminally liable under this circumstance.

I don't know about RI law, but some (not all) states have a charge of "negligent homicide"--meaning that you can be charged if you perform an action resulting in the death of another person when you should have known that the actions could result in death, even if you had no intent to kill anyone. Most states require a higher degree of recklessness than that for a conviction of manslaughter (which carries a stiffer penalty)--and I doubt the conduct by either the band or the club fits this, since the pyro had apparently been used at other gigs with no problems. For example, if the pyro had actually caused fire problems before, and the band went ahead and used it (or the club approved it), then manslaughter charges might be more appropriate because the use of pyro in that instance would probably cross the legal line from "negligent" to "reckless". Further, if the pyro had caused death before, and the band used it anyway, then we're talking about Murder Two, because that would arguably be "depraved indifference to human life"--again without the actual intent to kill anyone.

Ok, law class dismissed.

[pro-fusion]

Re: great white band/night club fire

Addendum: to give you a better idea of "negligent homicide", the typical case is a drunk driving death that doesn't involve a repeat offender. In fact, some states that don't have the negligent homicide offense do have a special equivalent "vehicular manslaughter" charge for drunk-driving offenses, I believe.

A repeat drunk-driving offender would probably be charged with manslaughter.

Typically, negligent homicide convictions result in much shorter jail sentences than manslaughter convictions--in many cases, just probation and fines/restitution.

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: great white band/night club fire

I posted this on the other thread also...
++++++++++=

The classroom trained and licensed guy that has done Pyro for our shows saw that video and was commenting a bit to me last night.

He used the same thing (gerbs) that Great White were using (but much smaller ones) at our last Halloween show (in a small bar too)

When he saw that video he was really upset that anyone would be so stupid to set that particular slow sparkle "gerb" (they come in 7,10,15,20 second sparkle time) that they used that close to a ceiling or wall.

He said "legally" and safely, you need 18-25 feet on all sides for Jets and Gerbs. He said those were by far to large to use in that venue and that most prudent techs would require a 25 foot safety zone.

Whoever set it up was obviously not properly trained or was just F-ing stupid.

[Ael]

Re: great white band/night club fire

I was also shocked when I heared about this. It's true that you feel more strongly for things closer to you. Tragedies happen all around world almost constantly, but this really could have happened to almost anyone here. You go to see gigs to place totally cramped full of people and at least I've never even thought about the worst. Hopefully everyone can learn something about this, so nothing so senseless would happen again - safety of the people in should be the number one priority.

Next gig I was going to see is CoB with Soilwork, but maybe I should reconsider. Well that's just going to be too good to be missed.

My condolences for all those who lost their lives and their loved ones.

[Explorer77]

Re: great white band/night club fire

yeah it is pretty sad. my condolences

[ edit] there happy? excuse my ignorance . i was merely tryign to lighten things a bit up. but i guess i failed at it [edit]

[ February 22, 2003, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: Explorer77 ]

[Chuckracer]

Re: great white band/night club fire

Way to go, A-Hole.

Re: great white band/night club fire

No sh!t, that was very bad bro, tasteless... [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

There's absolutely nothing to joke about here...

Pat