Esp and Jackson...

[RacerX]

The first poster was comparing 'em. You really didn't do any comparison in your wonderful post, and zebutcher posted a buncha pics of his (admittedly pretty) one. So my 5:06 post was directed mainly to preclude any future ESP fanboyz from cluttering up this thread with pics or discussion of ESP only. If ya want compare ESP to Jackson (goofy comparo IMO), fine.

Me afraid of chat? HAR HAR HAR

[Xochitl]

Me afraid of chat? HAR HAR HAR

Nice to read it!

We can compare together.
I haven't already owned US Jackson's, but I already played japanese ones. It seems to me that ESP's are better finished, have better pups, etc. But I don't believe it's fair to compare different ranges this way.
One of the thigs I believe are special and very interesting, that ESP's don't have, with Jackson's are their necks with a compound radius!

[Inazone]

I'm not at all that sure that Jackson is doing that well since they're runned by FMIC!

Not sure if you're implying that Jackson was an independent/self-owned company that was forced to "sell out" (AMIC owned them) or that AMIC was doing a good job of running Jackson, but one would be incorrect and the second would be highly debatable. Fender has been listening to customer feedback as seen with the 2006 models, by most accounts has improved the dealer/service network, and has some of the most respected Custom Shop staffers back on board. Under AMIC's direction, Jackson was extremely neglected and Charvel was little more than a memory.

BTW, low end Jackson's are getting worse. Take a look at the X series this year and you'll know what I mean!

Low end guitars getting worse? Looks to me like they are finally doing something to differentiate the X, MG and Pro lines. The X and Pro features were nearly identical up until this year, which made no sense at all. Other than "downgrading" the X trem to the JT500, what changed? It's the same trem used on guitars by a lot of manufacturers. The pickups stayed the same, did they not?

It comes back to the same unwarranted criticism that always pops up about this brand or that brand, where someone doesn't make the distinction between low- and high-end guitars, be it Jackson imports versus USA models, or "real" ESPS versus LTDs. The prices on Korean guitars are approaching USA pricing from a few years ago, and everyone but Jackson seems to be charging a TON for Japanese guitars now. I don't believe that American guitars are inherently better than imports, or that Korean guitars aren't sometimes good, but ESP's pricing is bordering on absurdity.

[RacerX]

Maybe he was referring to the X series going to basswood bodies next month....BUT that is also quite debatable whether that will be a "downgrade".

[jackson1]

We need to have quartersawn necks back on the Pro Series.

[dtt001]

Kind of a timely thread for me as I purchased an ESP recently. I believe they are Electronic Stereo Products (ESP) someone may know better. It seems a bit peculiar for a guitar name. At any rate I have two guitars from this company and they are both from the late eighties/early nineties. While technically they seem very well made they are both knockoffs of other designs. One is a Tele the other is an Explorer and not similar shapes, I mean the Explorer is extremely close to an '84 Gibson and the Tele save for the headstock is an exacting remake too.

To get back to the original part of the thread, I like Jackson guitars a bit better. The reason (in part) is although they have made guitars similar to other manufacturers they do have their own signature iconic styles, obviously R.R., Warriors, etc. One could perhaps argue these and other Jacksons evolved from other designs, the point though is I have yet to see an ESP where I thought 'that guitar looks like an ESP'.

Of course as always to each their own and I am not really in touch with todays cool guitar shapes anyway. I just like Jackson guitars.

[PallarAndersVisa]

Not sure if you're implying that Jackson was an independent/self-owned company that was forced to "sell out" (AMIC owned them) or that AMIC was doing a good job of running Jackson, but one would be incorrect and the second would be highly debatable. Fender has been listening to customer feedback as seen with the 2006 models, by most accounts has improved the dealer/service network, and has some of the most respected Custom Shop staffers back on board. Under AMIC's direction, Jackson was extremely neglected and Charvel was little more than a memory.



Low end guitars getting worse? Looks to me like they are finally doing something to differentiate the X, MG and Pro lines. The X and Pro features were nearly identical up until this year, which made no sense at all. Other than "downgrading" the X trem to the JT500, what changed? It's the same trem used on guitars by a lot of manufacturers. The pickups stayed the same, did they not?

It comes back to the same unwarranted criticism that always pops up about this brand or that brand, where someone doesn't make the distinction between low- and high-end guitars, be it Jackson imports versus USA models, or "real" ESPS versus LTDs. The prices on Korean guitars are approaching USA pricing from a few years ago, and everyone but Jackson seems to be charging a TON for Japanese guitars now. I don't believe that American guitars are inherently better than imports, or that Korean guitars aren't sometimes good, but ESP's pricing is bordering on absurdity.

::applause::

I dont see how ESP/LTD can get away with charging over $1000 for a korean guitar. I dont see very many peopel buying them either Jackson definately has the best value for the money. Every Jackson/Charvel i've ever owned (6 or 7) I've been nothing but happy with. And this ranges from the JS series, to a USA custom shop axe, and everything in between.

[Xochitl]

Maybe he was referring to the X series going to basswood bodies next month....BUT that is also quite debatable whether that will be a "downgrade".

Thanks RacerX. That's what I meant. Sorry for not have been explicit enough! And yes, that is debatable. Personnally, I prefer alder over basswood.
I don't know if my memories are orientated but I prefer Pro series of the early 90's (actually I was beginning to play and would have craved for a Jackson ; my first electric was a Charvette 270, I believe) over what was done these last years!

[Xochitl]

Jackson definately has the best value for the money. Every Jackson/Charvel i've ever owned (6 or 7) I've been nothing but happy with. And this ranges from the JS series, to a USA custom shop axe, and everything in between.

Well it may be so in the US, but I'm living in the EU and I feel like Jackson's are a bit overpriced here!

[straycat]

Electric Sound Products = ESP.Yes a dumb name I agree but they made some fine guitars.Just way overpriced.Jackson offers a better product at a better price.
I have seen those horizons at ESP dealers here in the USA.

[Xochitl]

Electric Sound Products = ESP.Yes a dumb name I agree.

That's history now (a 30 years one at least). No one would call them like this anymore!

[straycat]

Not sure what you mean by that last post.

[pott]

He's right, it's verging on impossible to find decently priced Jacksons in France. A shop in Paris had a pro series bolt on 7 strings for 800 euros (around 1100 USD maybe?). A DK2 would cost the Frenchies around...700 euros maybe? I'm not too sure. And USA Jacksons cost as much as a car over there.
Here in the UK (I'm French by the way) we can get a DK2 for 300 pounds for the standard version (2005 model though) online but again, in shops they'd be £450. And USA Jacksons are not even distributed. They don't exist.

Now the kid can go into a shop, see loads of LTDs, maybe ONE Jackson which would be more expensive than the LTD and he goes 'eh, EMG, and Hetfield plays ESP!'. There definitely is a Europe distribution problem of Jacksons. Whereas ESP/LTDs are everywhere.

I played an ESP and it was a GOOD instrument. Same, every USA Jacksons I played were top notch quality. I prefer the ESP headstock but I'd buy a USA Jackson first personally, I love the feel.

[Hamner1]

The only ESP that I like the looks of is the Lynch Camo ones. I played a used one about a year ago, & I liked it. It played good & sounded good. Any other ESP/LTD I've played I haven't liked. And I have to say that the notch out of the Laiho Rhoads copy is but ugly.

[ewright]

I don't own an ESP, so I have no opinion on which is better. However, one of the reasons I don't own an ESP is because of their ridiculous finish choices! Its almost like each model gets one or two finishes only; so when I find a guitar I like, it comes in a finish I hate, or vice-versa. I don't get it...