J/C Custom Shop List Prices - No Longer Available to the Customer!

[shreddermon]

So I just noticed the custom shop generator is back up on Jackson's web site:

http://www.jacksonguitars.com/customshop/specform/

And, previously, Charvel posted an updated price list after Summer NAMM:

http://www.fender.com/resources/pric...ceList2006.pdf

Notice anything missing? That's right - NO LIST PRICES FOR CUSTOM SHOP ORDERS in either!!! WTF???


Scenario 1

J/C: "We'd love to have your business for the custom guitar of your dreams. Spec it out, and contact a dealer for pricing."

Customer: "Umm, how can I independently verify that the dealer is telling me the actual list price? i.e., Not trying to rip me off?"

J/C: "Oh, you'll just have to trust the dealer."



Scenario 2

Customer: "Yeah, I've always wanted to order a custom Jackson or Charvel. OK, custom shop generator...I'll take this body, that option. And that neck, and that option, and this one. And - booyah! - always wanted to get one with that thingee. ....Off to the dealer for a price now."

J/C Dealer: "Yeah, we can order that for you. With all of those wild options, the list price will turn out to be ten thousand dollars."

Customer: "Say what? Well, what if I delete this option and that one?"

J/C Dealer: "That brings you down to $8k."

(Many annoying spec iterations later...)

J/C Dealer: "OK, you're now down to $4k. I can give you XX% off list price. I only need a deposit of $YYY to place the order."

Customer: "Man, when I think about it, I just don't want to spend that much dough when I'm not getting coolio options X, Y, and Z. No thanks after all."

J/C Dealer: (Grumbling to himself.) "Damn tire kickers! Thanks for wasting my time, grande. I'm really tired of dealing with this crap. It's just not worth it. The number of lame-o tire kicking losers has increased 100 times since J/C made the list prices unavailable."



Seriously. Maybe I'm missing something, but I find it un-freakin-conscionable that this is no longer publically available. I'm utterly speechless.

[MEX3]

All you can do is try to get quotes from 5-10 dealers. I'm sure it's a way to increase dealers profits.

[IrfaanSE801]

Ah man, that really does suck. I mean I'm glad it's back up and all, but scenario 2 is honestly what was happening with me. I was talking to Matt about a custom and we finally got somewhere, but it turned out to be a couple hundred more than I wanted to spend. I was honestly waiting for the generator to come back up so I can figure out what to cut and modify without wasting the dealers time, but it looks like that is something that's gonna happen now

Edit: Haha, didn't mean I'm gonna waste your time Matt, just saying it's probably more likely to happen with a lot of people

[Chad]

I see major tire kicker frustration for dealers. If you don't have SOME idea what the thing is gonna cost, it makes it very difficult. There will probably be 13 year old kids specing out super customs they think will cost $1,000 (ridiculous, but without a reference how are they to know?), then find out it costs $5,000....and everybody's time is wasted.

Let's just hope that the site is still under construction.

[cookiemonster2]

Maybe prices are under review for the time being and that is why they didn't put them up? Considering demand seems to be way more than Jackson's ability to supply this seems likely sooner or later. Or maybe dealers complained, put the old one back until you have a new quote system because how are customers supposed to fill out a form in the meantime? Anyways, from what I remember off the top of my head:

- neck-through body $3420
- bolt-on was approx $350 to 400 less I think
- mahogany or korina body upgrade from alder $60, I think $60 each for body and neck
- sharkfins from dots $60
- blocks from dots $120
- abalone upgrade from MOP $60
- veneer or 1/8"? flame/quilt maple top $120
- 3/4" flame/quilt maple top $180
- carved top $120
- laminate neck or three piece neck $120
- birds eye or flame maple neck $120
- gold hardware $120
- Original floyd $120
- Floyd pro $180
- EMG's were an upcharge but can't remember how much

Doesn't look like they bothered to update the options, e.g. no shark eye inlays listed. ???

[IrfaanSE801]

Maybe prices are under review for the time being and that is why they didn't put them up?

I was thinking the same thing. I hope there isn't another price increase

[Newc]

Ah man, that really does suck. I mean I'm glad it's back up and all, but scenario 2 is honestly what was happening with me. I was talking to Matt about a custom and we finally got somewhere, but it turned out to be a couple hundred more than I wanted to spend. I was honestly waiting for the generator to come back up so I can figure out what to cut and modify without wasting the dealers time, but it looks like that is something that's gonna happen now

Edit: Haha, didn't mean I'm gonna waste your time Matt, just saying it's probably more likely to happen with a lot of people

I'd say bite the bullet and spring the other couple hundred, especially if it's something that has a very distinct difference over a production model such as wood type, inlays, body shape, or something that can be changed later (i.e. get a blank ebony board now and have it inlaid at a later date, get a basic color and have a graphic added later, etc etc).

There are a lot of things you can leave off a Custom Order that are easy to change later (i.e. get Jackson pickups to reduce the price and put in EMGs later - IIRC the CSQG price for a set of EMGs was over $250 - you can find them cheaper new).

I hate to suggest reducing the dealer's profit that way, especially good guys like Scott and Matt and the other Matt ( ) but if you can't swing the cost at all, there's no sale at all. Worse yet, if you can swing the deposit but not the final delivery, the dealer is left with a one-of-a-kind that no one wants to pay the full price for.

A USA Custom Shop Jackson need not be the "once-in-a-lifetime-event" it has always been made out to be. Look for legitimate areas where you can save money but still get a relatively unique instrument. Personally I'd live with the SL1's H-S-S setup before paying CS price for the same guitar minus the middle pickup if that was the only difference.

I drew up a killer Warrior idea and sent it in for a quote long before the two I'm waiting on now - I may still go for it one day, maybe as bolt-on, maybe as neckthrough, but at the time I had to let it go becuase of the cost (close to $8K IIRC). Definitely woulda been worth it, I just could not afford it.

This move may also be Jackson's way of convincing those die-hard Jackson fans who would order a CS to build a relationship with a dealer rather than shop the same idea to 5 different ones looking for the best price and just exist in the mechanical realm of "supply and demand".

Or it may be to level the field so screwjobs like MF and other major chains can sucker more people into paying not only full MSRP but in the process support the corporate juggernaut of rich, uncaring executives and dimwitted teenage store staff

[ApeDosMil]

They might be having problems with production costs so they are reconsidering the prices..

[followthereaper]

Maybe they were tired of the bandwidth used form people just fucking around with the generator out of boredom...

[shreddermon]

Man, you guys are optimists. Let's put it this way...

In some form or another for the past 25 years or so - since J/C's inception! - the list prices for doing a custom shop order have pretty much always been publically available. They may not have always been in the same level of detail many years ago (i.e., "other custom graphics - call for price"), but the base prices and common major option upgrades have always been available. This is a complete break from history - esp. considering that J/C is a company that whose very foundation and basis was cemented by the custom shop concept.

And it is not a coincidence that this was removed from both the Jackson web site and the Charvel price list at the same time. For instance, do you see list prices available for the public for Fender custom shop ordering? Nope - they just don't do it.

It's highly unlikely that they're just revamping the web site, reconsidering custom prices, or whatever innocuous possible reasons might lead to taking out the pricing info. If that's what's happening, I'll humbly apologize. But highly doubtful, IMHO.

No ladies and gents, we've probably just witnessed a major policy change at Jackson/Charvel. You'll probably never see that kind of pricing info. ever again. ...Good luck to those of you who don't have a good ongoing relationship with a reputible dealer.

No, this is not a "customer friendly" decision. I'm very disappointed and unhappy about it. IMHO, anyone who ever even considered ordering a custom shop guitar should be, too.

[IrfaanSE801]

It does suck and I am dissapointed, but I think they might just want us to take a look at the List Price sheet on the sites and get a general idea from there, although that's still a pain in the ass and not accurate because of the limited options shown. I do wonder what the logic behind that is though, maybe John can chime in on this. My own custom is up in the air right now, and this is a drag to bother the dealer on changes every time without having a general idea first. I guess we'll see...

[model1]

Man, you guys are optimists. Let's put it this way...

In some form or another for the past 25 years or so - since J/C's inception! - the list prices for doing a custom shop order have pretty much always been publically available. They may not have always been in the same level of detail many years ago (i.e., "other custom graphics - call for price"), but the base prices and common major option upgrades have always been available. This is a complete break from history - esp. considering that J/C is a company that whose very foundation and basis was cemented by the custom shop concept.

....


No ladies and gents, we've probably just witnessed a major policy change at Jackson/Charvel. You'll probably never see that kind of pricing info. ever again. ...Good luck to those of you who don't have a good ongoing relationship with a reputible dealer.

No, this is not a "customer friendly" decision. I'm very disappointed and unhappy about it. IMHO, anyone who ever even considered ordering a custom shop guitar should be, too.

thankts exactly what i think

[withmyshadow]

All you can do is try to get quotes from 5-10 dealers. I'm sure it's a way to increase dealers profits.

this is an interesting point. It's first thing that came to my mind when I saw the new custom form w/o prices.

if they still have a price list for custom orders but now it's only open to dealers as specified in their new dealer agreement. now, you send a dealer your order form and they can get a list price in 5 minutes and they will get back to you asap with just a sale price. too high? try another dealer and takes another 5-10 minutes. it's not a huge pain for customers to have a quote and it gives dealers a better chance at making money. Let's call this scenario A. I am ok with it.

then there's scenario B. Dealers don't have that list either. so they have to forward your order form to jackson for a price. this back and forth takes 2 weeks, let's say. if you don't like the number, try another dealer. The other dealer forwards the same(!) form to jackson and they get the number again and it takes maybe another 2 weeks. after all, if you don't like the number you don't have to buy. but it's free to run the routine for the price. then it's a hassle for everybody unless they have way too many orders then they can handle so they want to have less orders and make more profits from richer customers . I can't blame them for doing that.

so I guess the bottem line is if they keep the size of the shop and capacity unincreased then it's going to be builder/dealer's market coz they don't really have a siganificant competitor because they are good. oh, well...

[Newc]

This is a complete break from history - esp. considering that J/C is a company that whose very foundation and basis was cemented by the custom shop concept.

Jackson was also founded on the idea of breaking from history/tradition/what was commonly referred to as "normal" :ROTF:

Did someone leave the irony on?

Seriously, though, I do see your point. I doubt many, if any, dealers have anything but a basic price list - Custom Graphics and the like will always say "Call for price", as well as any other unlisted Custom option. I personally would like to see the price quote feature back like it used to be, but then again maybe it was brought about by the dealers who argued that many potential customers follow the "List minus 40%" pricing thing, and the dealer is not making as much profit off the sale as they would like. Removing the base prices from customer view allows the dealers to change their final prices, and customers are unable to haggle because they don't know if the latest price increase was an average $1000 or only $300.

This does put the customer in a pickle, but will probably free Jackson from the "shop-around" submissions - imagine being the person who has to field the same orders from 5 different dealers and you're getting 300 or 400 different orders a day, and each order has 4 "shop-around" clones? That's 1500 to 2000 total orders a day you have to sort through and send the same reply 5 times. It's great for the customer, but it sucks for the company. Company policy dictates that if it costs us more than it earns for us, get rid of it.

[~K~]

Ah but this really would put a dent in playing around with options trying to figure out what each thing will cost and adjusting the form according to your budget .. now you'll have to have multiple quotes done to get a feel for option cost ..