Grover Jackson is back

[shreddermon]

Jeez, every time FMIC does something that may or may not be good, you guys make me wish I had bought more foil hats :ROTF:

Does everything have to be some major conspiracy? Cripes, next thing you know, there'll be rumors that the Roswell Star was actually designed by the aliens who are secretly in control of the custom shop, and are plotting to take control of the earth and enslave us all.

[shadowcat]

Does everything have to be some major conspiracy? Cripes, next thing you know, there'll be rumors that the Roswell Star was actually designed by the aliens who are secretly in control of the custom shop, and are plotting to take control of the earth and enslave us all.

But they would fail because of QC issues... :ROTF:

[Sunbane]

But they would fail because of QC issues... :ROTF:

:ROTF:

[Lucifer]

So when will Wayne go back to JC? Then we´re talking!

[Bengal65]

Is this a move to replace the "not so popular" Pablo designs?

[hippietim]

Does everything have to be some major conspiracy? Cripes, next thing you know, there'll be rumors that the Roswell Star was actually designed by the aliens who are secretly in control of the custom shop, and are plotting to take control of the earth and enslave us all.

Where are the conspiracy claims? All I see is people labeling this as a PR move to charge even more money for guitars. The Grover NAMM guitars certainly offer some pretty strong indicators for someone to come to that conclusion.

You can wish it weren't so, think everyone is a hater, or make whatever conspiracy remarks you want Pat - but the simple fact is that for a lot of folks things have spiraled completely out of control with the price increases (many of which are beyond absurd), the continuous QC problems, and what feels like general disregard for a pretty great fan base.

And there's no love for J/C from the dealers either. I've spoken with a number of dealers that are just completely fed up with this stuff. They all say the same things people are saying on the boards (and then some). One of these guys has been Jackson dealer since Grover ran the show. Do you realize what it takes for someone like that to tell a customer that now is not a good time to buy a new Jackson?

[Budman68]

Where are the conspiracy claims? All I see is people labeling this as a PR move to charge even more money for guitars. The Grover NAMM guitars certainly offer some pretty strong indicators for someone to come to that conclusion.

You can wish it weren't so, think everyone is a hater, or make whatever conspiracy remarks you want Pat - but the simple fact is that for a lot of folks things have spiraled completely out of control with the price increases (many of which are beyond absurd), the continuous QC problems, and what feels like general disregard for a pretty great fan base.

And there's no love for J/C from the dealers either. I've spoken with a number of dealers that are just completely fed up with this stuff. They all say the same things people are saying on the boards (and then some). One of these guys has been Jackson dealer since Grover ran the show. Do you realize what it takes for someone like that to tell a customer that now is not a good time to buy a new Jackson?

perfection of truth at its best -

[shreddermon]

Where are the conspiracy claims? All I see is people labeling this as a PR move to charge even more money for guitars. The Grover NAMM guitars certainly offer some pretty strong indicators for someone to come to that conclusion.

You can wish it weren't so, think everyone is a hater, or make whatever conspiracy remarks you want Pat - but the simple fact is that for a lot of folks things have spiraled completely out of control with the price increases (many of which are beyond absurd), the continuous QC problems, and what feels like general disregard for a pretty great fan base.

And there's no love for J/C from the dealers either. I've spoken with a number of dealers that are just completely fed up with this stuff. They all say the same things people are saying on the boards (and then some). One of these guys has been Jackson dealer since Grover ran the show. Do you realize what it takes for someone like that to tell a customer that now is not a good time to buy a new Jackson?

Tim, the conspiracy claim stems from automatically asuming that bringing Grover in as a PR move is only being done to justify absurdly higher prices. Why isn't it just a PR move? You know, like getting back to their roots through the company's founder? Or like getting the EVH endorsement? What's so wrong with that? Why does there have to be some consipracy underlying everything?

There's so such negativity out there - including on this board - that J/C can do nothing right. Everything little freakin' thing is suspect with ulterior motives. i.e., "They only got Grover to justify the huge price increases." It's HC childish nonsense. Internet rumor wankery at its finest. "Group consciousness" f**kwad-ery by many. And, yes, a very small core group of it is even being done by "haters". And some very sensible people are buying into it, too. Understandable, as it's being said over and over so many times, that folks are actually believing the big nonsensical silliness that's wrapped around the smaller truths of real problems.

As to the rest, gee... How many times have I agreed that QC needs to improve? That the CS shipping delays are total BS? That their customer service flat out sucks? The NAMM guitar prices nonsense? And, while the 20-ish% price increase is admittedly high, its not unexpected. And, yes, if I were a dealer, I'd be pretty fed up with dealing with the BS, flat out fuckin' lies, and QC/returns issues. Heck, they're even losing me somewhat. Not completely - my recent customs have all been great. But I ain't exactly going out of my way to order guitars until I see some signs that they're getting their s**t together more. Significantly more.

So, bottom line - yes there are problems, some significant. But they're also being blown out of proportion. It's the "spiraled completely out of control" stuff that's utter nonsense that I don't agree with.

[hippietim]

[Budman68]

Pat, with all due respect, my friend, you said it yourself that QC needs to be re-introduced to the fold. If they would just concentrate on making a great consistant product, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The fact that they can't even have a person visually look at a friggin custom shop guitar, and see that there is something wrong with it, is beyond me. I mean really, that's the easiest inspection to do and they can't even bother with that?


I know I'm in no position to tell anyone how to run a business but it's a fact that people are not going to continue buying product that isn't usable. THAT is the bottom line, is it not?

[shreddermon]

Agreed, Dave. But what we most often hear about is only the bad. Less often the good. I sincerely believe that the problem guitars going out the door are in a minority. Nonetheless, that's still not good enough.

And Tim, if there's Kool Aid, it's flowing on both sides. Just different flavors.

[slayer]

As for the QC issues, all of my Jacksons have been very good. The biggest problem I have with them is the 20% increase in CS prices. That is insane and I will not order another one until they go back to the lower(last years) prices. Also remember they raised the select prices by 15% last year. Jack.

[shreddermon]

No, they didn't. The last USA Select price increase was summer of 2004. Nearly 3 years ago. If you don't believe me, go check the old price lists for yourself.

[Budman68]

Agreed, Dave. But what we most often hear about is only the bad. Less often the good. I sincerely believe that the problem guitars going out the door are in a minority. Nonetheless, that's still not good enough.

I completely agree that we're hearing more about the bad ones but if you just sit back for a minute, don't you honestly think there's a reason why? First of all, I know for a fact that there are certain people that would not say anything about a certain custom shop they received because they were embarassed about the condition it was in. I'm sure that person is not the only one who feels the same way. Hell, I bet there are people that aren't as picky as I am, who haven't even noticed the problems with their own guitar because they don't want to see it.

Look Pat, I know you're a huge fan of these and I have such respect for you for that reason but we can't just keep thinking that "it's not that bad". Nothing gets fixed that way and until it does, it's going to get worse. Just my opinion......and no kool aid here, that's for damn sure -

[sully]

good point, but what i think pat's trying to say is that the issues do (hopefully) represent a very small percentage of the total. i don't believe that the majority will buy a jackson, love it, and go tell the world. there's a customer service stat that basically says that a happy customer tells 3-4 people if that. a pissed off one will tell 20 if they can. so while there are q/c issues, we may hear more about those than the good.

jmo