Yet another bitch about Jackson thread

[neilli]

In regard to the discussion about small batch QC problems, I think the owners of the new Copperhead run are going to be VERY happy.

Why?

[hippietim]

Ok, understood, thanks for that.

Anyone have any ideas?

Yep. Go buy a Suhr, Carvin, GMW, Anderson, Grosh, Warmoth, USACG, Hamer, PRS...

[Budman68]

Go me!

exactly!

[Budman68]

Yep. Go buy a Suhr, Carvin, GMW, Anderson, Grosh, Warmoth, USACG, Hamer, PRS...

thought process is already in motion, my friend, as for Jackson/Charvel, I'll stick with the old ones as well - Now I just need to get some stuff around this house fixed up and I'll be good to go.

[hippietim]

thought process is already in motion, my friend, as for Jackson/Charvel, I'll stick with the old ones as well - Now I just need to get some stuff around this house fixed up and I'll be good to go.

Spill Dave, what are you getting?

[Budman68]

Spill Dave, what are you getting?

nothing to spill......yet.....

[shreddermon]

I asked you this question earlier but you didn't answer. How much worse does it have to get to be a crisis?

Bigger than a bread box. Is that a sufficient answer? What do you want me to say? That it has to be X% of production to be a "crisis"? I didn't answer the question because it's kind of silly. I'll know it when I see it. IMHO we're not there.

It's hard to say one way or another. But even if it's just the limited runs, it is still a pitiful track record.

Agreed that it is a "pitiful" record on special runs. If the special runs are "worse than usual", though, not pitiful on the whole.

That's a purely academic debate. And while it is perhaps interesting, it has no relevance to the guitars they are producing today.

Mostly agreed. I would say "little relevance", rather than "none". In other words, the reasons why QC was bad then is somewhat relevant to solving the problem now. More importantly, why hasn't it improved since then?

I disagree. There are plenty of facts here. It is a fact that almost every run that folks around here have witnessed has had fuckups. It is a fact that there are plenty of fucked up individual Custom Shop guitars. It is a fact that they do a shitty job packing and shipping. It is a fact that they have bad turn around times on quotes, work orders, and problem resolution. It is a fact that they raised prices when their QC is not acceptable.

Agreed, Tim. Sorry, you misunderstand what I meant. I mean that each person's assessment of how bad these issues are is a matter of opinion.

Oh please. You've thrown your share of negativity into these discussions more often than not. I think a lot of us that are getting the fucked up guitars and shitty service find it a bitter pill to swallow when you post on these discussions about how folks are nitpicking, things aren't really that bad, etc. What long-time friendships were strained in any of this? I'm not aware of any.

Yep, I have. Usually in response to someone else's negativity that started it. But, in the end, does that matter? Not a lot. It has to end somehow. Either people throttle back their attitudes - on both sides - or the negativity gets removed. I'm trying to encourage the former, in the hopes that it maybe it leads to less of the latter. Would you like to help that situation? Or continue things the way they've been? I know the drama of throwing bombs can sometimes be more entertaining. But ultimately, it's self-defeating.

As to strained friendships, that's better left to the parties involved. No one has said as much to me - I'm just reading between the lines.

A lot of us have had discussions on and off the board about how to improve things with folks from Jackson, dealers, fellow customers, etc. It is clear that things are not on path to improve so I say fuck it and fuck buying any more of their new guitars.

Fine, then do that. But how about doing so without the negativity of "fuck them, fuck their guitars, and J/C is the f'kin anti-christ." I mean, how about something to the effect of: "I've had it, the QC is bad, I've personally experienced it too much with my own purchases, and I'm not going to buy another - and won't recommend it to anyone else - until there's a demonstrated history of it getting better." There's a significant difference.

[slayer]

Dave and Tim, me also. I really wanted to order a new CS Jackosn or Charvel all mahogany short scale Star, but with the huge price increases and QC issues, I am way out. I am actually going with a smaller luthier in Cleveland,OH called Hill guitars. It mya be a couple of years till it happens fully, but I have made peace that it won`t be a Jackson/Charvel and believe me that hurts even to say that If for some reason J/C lowers their prices back down and the QC issues are resolved and my order isn`t in with Hill by then, I may change my mind, but it will take J/C a hell of alot of proving and price cut to get me back. Jack.

[Inazone]

This is the Internet, folks. I don't think any of the JCF "regulars" are blindly loyal to J/C as a brand, for the very reason that having a forum like this makes it very easy to compare new guitars to old, USAs to imports, AMIC to FMIC and so on. But there will inevitably be visitors to the forum who turn around and repeat what they read here with no personal experience. That's how things get blown out of proportion, as evidenced by the ceaseless barrage of "pre-Fender" eBay auctions. Don't let this turn into a classic Harmony Central debate over who has the most valid experience or the best inside scoop on the brand, builders or dealers.

It would be much more constructive to find an "in" for relaying these concerns to someone at J/C. Yeah, yeah, I realize that they don't have much of a presence here, even less so than when the Ask Jackson section was around, but if a letter or email was sent to the right person, something outlining the QC concerns without turning into a rant, just maybe it would set off a few buzzers. While JCFers may not account for a huge percentage of new guitar sales, this forum is still a very visible place for current and prospective owners to dig for info. Surely, none of the sponsoring dealers want to lose business over these issues.

Maybe we ought to try getting a Jackson-authorized tech to participate in the discussion, if none are lurking already.

[MEX3]

Didn't Xeno cancell a Demon that they screwed up royally and didn't his XTRR have issues too? Both 1 off customs. Weren't the JCF02s all "master built" by Mike Shannon? If so, I don't think it's worth the extra $$$ to have your guitar screwed up by only 1 guy instead of 3 guys.

[hippietim]

Fine, then do that. But how about doing so without the negativity of "fuck them, fuck their guitars, and J/C is the f'kin anti-christ."

First, I didn't say "fuck them" or call them the anti-christ. Nice manipulation of words though.

I mean, how about something to the effect of: "I've had it, the QC is bad, I've personally experienced it too much with my own purchases, and I'm not going to buy another - and won't recommend it to anyone else - until there's a demonstrated history of it getting better." There's a significant difference.

I'm sorry I'm not being more sensitive Pat. Uh, yeah, right, I'm going to start being PC about how I express myself on this board with this group of folks - I don't think so.

[hippietim]

It would be much more constructive to find an "in" for relaying these concerns to someone at J/C.

Surely, none of the sponsoring dealers want to lose business over these issues.

You must not be reading the right posts, they are already losing business because of the QC issues. It's to the point where some have stopped even taking CS orders!

[Jack Napalm]

You must not be reading the right posts, they are already losing business because of the QC issues. It's to the point where some have stopped even taking CS orders!

I must have missed this. Which dealer has stopped taking orders?

[Scholomance]

I just wanted to chime in. I just received two custom shop pieces from Matt's Music on Tuesday. Both are perfect. I was a little worried with all that I've heard of the QC issues and I am sorry to hear the recent batch of problems. I have had problems with other custom shops and it surely does suck. However, neither one of these, or my previous custom had ANY issues, and I ordered some wild stuff. In fact, the two I just got may be the nicest of any of my customs so far. They look, sound, and play beautiful and though its possible I may be pressing my luck, I am definitely considering ordering more custom shop guitars if the quotes are not too over-inflated.

Scott

[Rufue]

The best way to encourage J/C to really get a grip on QC and customer service issues maybe to vote with your dollars.

For me personally, this will probably be the first year since I started playing and collecting that I will not be purchasing a Jackson or Charvel. I have two custom shop orders coming in this year that were originally in the J/C hopper last year that I pulled and are now coming from other manufactures, and I also have a used guitar coming in next week from yet a third manufacture.

I don't pretend to live in a perfect world, and I know every guitar manufacture will produce a dud or two - and I will certainly buy other Jackson's and Charvel in the future, from the used market most likely.

I really love my current J/Cs and I am pulling for the company to be successful and turn out the best guitar the world has ever seen, and if there is a way I can personally help out J/C to over come the current troubles and be successful, I would be happy to participate.

Unfortunately, the way the sub camo run turned out has left me with no faith that J/C, in its current state, can produce what I am looking for, or backup what they produce. If a custom shop order is not right, the question from the manufacture should be "What do we need to do to make it right?" not "You did not specify a target weight." or "Well, its close to what you ordered." or "We were going to redo them, but we found a technicality so now we are not going to redo them."

So I recognize that there are problems at J/C, and I stand ready to assist if I can. What else can a die hard J/C fan do?