Yet another bitch about Jackson thread

[shreddermon]

Good question, Dave. Maybe there is and, so far, it ain't working.

[hippietim]

Tim, if I saw a picture of your wife and thought she was bat-shit ugly, would you appreciate me stating that opinion on this board? I don't think so. It's kind of the same thing, you know? Common decency. Your opinion of where the line for it should exist may be different than mine.

You are making no sense at all. I asked you to give some examples of what you consider nitpicking not to delve into specific instances. Surely you can do this without identifying a person or a guitar. Otherwise your opinion has no meaning for anyone else because there is no frame of reference for us to understand what you are talking about. I don't want to debate what is or what isn't nitpicking as a set of standardized rules, but everytime QC comes up you mention people are nitpicking and as you are the most vocal defender of the faith I would like to understand what you mean.

And my opinions on QC are just as valid as your's - or anyone elses - no matter how much you try to goad it into a public flamefest.

Of course your opinion is valid if you actually share your opinion. You aren't though. I really would like to understand what you consider nitpicking on a guitar purchase at this level.

As to the limited runs, you assume they have the same levels of QC issues as all J/C guitars, just more visability by volume. I have the opinion that they have a track record of being the worse than typical, but agree that it is exacerbated by their higher visability. Neither of us have enough empirical evidience to back it up - or any of this - as "fact".

I have a hard time understanding how or why they would do QC differently for a limited run. I'd be willing to bet the QC issues are more uniform than you think. But if they weren't uniform, I would think they'd want to do better on a limited run *because* of the visibility.

[hippietim]

Good question, Dave. Maybe there is and, so far, it ain't working.

Good answer. Of course you have a 50/50 shot at being right because it's either they're doing what you say or they are doing nothing at all

[Budman68]

No kidding, unbelievable, ya know? I just don't get it, it's almost like they're playing a joke on the customers. Why would this continue to happen? What's the point of getting stuff out the door if it's coming right back in?

I'm having a really hard time with this, it honestly bugs the living shit out of me......

[skorb]

I never said it was a delayed reaction as much as it was going down hill and by the tiem FMIC bought them things were hitting rock bottom. It cant be FMIC. Ive rarely heard of issues with Fenders custom shop, and there dont seem to be too many issues with USA Fenders and Gretsch either.

it "can't be FMIC"???

really?

just because the people who work for the Fender CS, and have been under the FMIC cost control efforts for years, have adapted and are working well under that system, does not mean that the same exists within JCMI or that both CS operations are treated the same. I'm quite sure they are not treated the same by FMIC.

it is likely that the flagship Fender CS gets more resources and has less cost pressure put on it by FMIC than the JCMI CS.

I'm sure it has something to do with the people there, but these craftsmen have been there all along, so I would guess it's not Shannon or Wilson or Santana, it's the helpers and assistants (or the lack of enough of them) and the fact that FMIC won't let them start over with a new piece of wood due to the cost management structure.

[hippietim]

It doesn't actually matter if it's FMIC, Akai, or Jim Morrison that's to blame. All I know is that it sucks the balls of donkeys.

[skorb]

It doesn't actually matter if it's FMIC, Akai, or Jim Morrison that's to blame. All I know is that it sucks the balls of donkeys.

well we were arguing an academic point, I know, but some people do care about the actual reason shit gets fucked up.

can't say I blame you for being past that at this point.

[Budman68]

I'm sure it has something to do with the people there, but these craftsmen have been there all along, so I would guess it's not Shannon or Wilson or Santana, it's the helpers and assistants (or the lack of enough of them) and the fact that FMIC won't let them start over with a new piece of wood due to the cost management structure.

Interesting point, and a good place to segway into this point. Wouldn't the Master builders be embarrased enough to say

"lets put a stop to this shit, we're not really looking like master builders at this point!"

I could only imagine if I had a guy go over my work after I was done with it and screwing it all up and making ME look bad. Um....that ain't gonna fly...

[skorb]

Interesting point, and a good place to segway into this point. Wouldn't the Master builders be embarrased enough to say

"lets put a stop to this shit, we're not really looking like master builders at this point!"

true, but this assumes they have any power to affect anything there, in terms of managment or cost structure.

I bet they don't. and I also bet they don't stick their necks out much in defense of their product either, not wise to do that much when you've just been taken over by a conglomerate, ya know?

[mattsmusiccenter]

I can only speak from my own experience with my own store, but part (certainly not all) of the reason some guitars take forever to ship is each dealer like myself, has a set credit limit with FMIC. Because I do so much business with them my credit line is often maxxed out, especially when I do 10 and 20 piece small batch runs.

When I receive those guitars, what's supposed to happen is I collect the balance owed from my customers, ship their guitars to them and pay my invoices from FMIC. Instead, what's been happening is many times the guitars are unsellable when they arrive here, which means I can't get paid on them.

In a situation like this, now my credit line is maxxed out and FMIC won't ship me anything until I pay it down again. As you might guess, I certainly can't pay for guitars that I can't get paid on, so now I have to wait until FMIC issues a credit for the guitars I return to them. This is where the problem has been, in my experience anyway, because for whatever reason it takes a long time for the credits to be issued.

In any event, I do know this is one of the many things that's being improved, so hopefully it will be less of a problem in the future.

Just wanted to share a different perspective...

[shredmonster]

Looks like trouble ahead boys - rough waters from a business standpoint any way you slice it.

I have been in sales most of my life and you can spend years getting customers and lose them all in a day.

Even if it is only perception or anecdotal.

Once they lose customers over quality issues most will not come back.

This is not good at all.

[skorb]

Matt, I see two key points in your post, that it all boils down to:

many times the guitars are unsellable when they arrive here, which means I can't get paid on them.

and

I have to wait until FMIC issues a credit for the guitars I return to them. .....it takes a long time for the credits to be issued.

to me, this is just more evidence that the guitar company in question is out to freekin lunch.

[hippietim]

Thanks for that bit of insight Matt. Any comments about the QC?

[mattsmusiccenter]

Thanks for that bit of insight Matt. Any comments about the QC?

Yup, I just received 12 customs and with the exception of one tiny finish flaw they're all perfect.

[Budman68]

true, but this assumes they have any power to affect anything there, in terms of managment or cost structure.

I bet they don't. and I also bet they don't stick their necks out much in defense of their product either, not wise to do that much when you've just been taken over by a conglomerate, ya know?

can't argue with that too much... but reputations are on the line, ya know?

Thanks for the info Matt, interesting to know -