Yet another bitch about Jackson thread

[Budman68]

Yup, I just received 12 customs and with the exception of one tiny finish flaw they're all perfect.

I think I just had a heartattack -


I mean, Damnit, that's just not good enough!!!

[Soloist1]

I never said it was a delayed reaction as much as it was going down hill and by the tiem FMIC bought them things were hitting rock bottom. It cant be FMIC. Ive rarely heard of issues with Fenders custom shop, and there dont seem to be too many issues with USA Fenders and Gretsch either.

They bought them back in 2002. It's now 2007. Supposedly quality was going to increase. And there was supposed to be a whole QC process these axes went through after the FMIC purchase and move to Corona. So what exactly happened to all that? We're they just blowing wind up our asses? The AMIC axes had a few minor issues. I don't ever recall any that were up to par with the latest axes that have been pointed out though.

[CharvelRocker]

They bought them back in 2002. It's now 2007. Supposedly quality was going to increase. And there was supposed to be a whole QC process these axes went through after the FMIC purchase and move to Corona. So what exactly happened to all that? We're they just blowing wind up our asses? The AMIC axes had a few minor issues. I don't ever recall any that were up to par with the latest axes that have been pointed out though.

That was 2002? Well hell no wonder everyone thought I sounded stupid, I thought it was 2004 Sounds kinda dumb anyway. Anyway, I wonder who has more QC issues : Jackson or Gibson?

[chrisolson]

We are going overboard a bit here. We can't compare a PC1 to the stuff that's coming out of Japan or Mexico. Two entirely different things.

Not really, and yes you can.

They are different, but they are guitars. When the fit, finish, and electronics on a cheap one work flawlessly, and the one you paid $3000 for comes with loose screws and poor/dead wiring, I would say one has EVERY right to go overboard. No questions there.

A custom guitar should be taken care of the way a good Democrat would take care of a welfare recipient - HAND HELD from cradle to grave. There should be NO issues with it when it goes out the door. Period! We aren't talking about a technological marvel here - it's a frickin' guitar!! I've built a couple of my own - it's not rocket science if I can do it. When you pay that kind of money, you should expect perfection.

When a mass produced cheapo guitar comes out with less flaws (beyond set-up) than a custom shop "masterpiece", there are obvious QC issues that need RIGHT NOW attention.

[xenophobe]

They bought them back in 2002. It's now 2007. Supposedly quality was going to increase. And there was supposed to be a whole QC process these axes went through after the FMIC purchase and move to Corona. So what exactly happened to all that? We're they just blowing wind up our asses? The AMIC axes had a few minor issues. I don't ever recall any that were up to par with the latest axes that have been pointed out though.

And that's exactly what happened. If you remember back on the ezboard days before the FMIC buyout, AMIC Jackson was at an all time complaint high... After the purchase, QC was almost instantly better.

Recently, it seems that QC has been slipping. Perhaps it is due to a higher manufacturing volume... The price increases and not taking orders for a time would seem to reflect this. So now there's more volume, and now people have more work to do. Hiring new people to install electronics and perform final QC will be fresh meat and inexperienced, and more likely to let stuff slip by until they get chewed out.

And Shreddermon has a valid point... Jackson HAS had a bad QC record when it comes to limited production runs. Remember all the issues with JCF-01? Paint runs, V plates not aligned to the string ferrule holes, and all sorts of problems...

So it seems that Jackson is having serious problems with growing pains. Hopefully it'll be resolved very soon.

[777]

When a mass produced cheapo guitar comes out with less flaws (beyond set-up) than a custom shop "masterpiece", there are obvious QC issues that need RIGHT NOW attention.

Agreed with the "right now attention" (for that kind of money) AND the "mass produced cheapo guitar comes out with less flaws" AGAIN, the difference between USA and Japan made guitars IS..............American wages and benefits! (you can argue 'till your blue in the face about MOP/binding/wood/electronics) and see what the re-sale value of these are. here's ANOTHER thread about "quality control" from another made in the USA product..................(just ask the FORD motor company) :ROTF: or the "made in USA" on your headstock................

[Bengal65]

Most of these quality issues are not difficult to fix. I have a strong feeling what is happening to J/C is what has happened to many American companies that manufactuer handmade products. The cost of labor a JIT (Just in Time) manufacturing is getting to them. Many U.S. companies are sending American made parts to foreign countries where labor is cheap. Most likely with these quality problems over the last year, are a result of withholding salary increases, not hiring enough personnel, thus overworking their employees and not ordering support material, such as hardware, electronics, all the way down to shipping boxes, stationary and lables. The bean counters have cut into the manufacturing process hard. And I'll bet the oldtimers in the Custom Shop are screamming. I know, I've been in this very situation in manufacturing. As a recent example, of things thrown together is the PC1 LTD's that were complete in August and were waiting on the Floyd Rose Sustainers. (maybe they didn't pay FR from the last order and they had a credit hold or just didn't plan well enough in advance) The parts should have been staged at body completion. Then they were slapped together to meet some unknow production schedule. The sign off's indicate 11/28/06. (At least mine had one out of four initals on the tag) Then they sat in the warehouse till the 3rd week in February. Other issues such as the whole drilling, incorrect neck pocket dimension issues, paint flaws are all a sign of a stressed and fustrated work force who probably have been asking for help all along. The whole system needs to be revamped. This is my prediction based on what I know about manufacturing and observing what is happening. I'm guessing what will happen in the coming months will be the CS price increases as already announced. (Guitars only for the rich built by the Master builders under less pressure) and then the current popular line moved to Asia supplied with American and European made parts to be built in Japan or Korea and possibly even Fender Mexico. The shops in Japan and Korea or Mexico will keep the popular, most in demand finishes and wood combinations. So, in other words your USA Select goes overseas. The Japan, Korean or Mexican factories will do small batches of like a 100 each with popular wood combinations and finishes including graphics to keep the popularity. The DK2M was a good test platform to start off with using different combinations of woods and finishes including the ghost flame job that needs improvement. Oh yeah, the CS stuff, think mega $$.

[Jack Napalm]

I was disappointed to hear about the issues with the PC1 limited run that was just done. I feel lucky that mine made it in one piece without major issues. I did have some lock nuts loose in the case and found two issues with the clear coat on the front. You have to look real hard but they are there. The back had a nice scratch in it. I don't think it was because of lock nuts as it was right in the middle of the back. My guess is that someone scratched it when taking out of the case or putting it in.

For my other custom guitar I had no issues what so ever. It was perfect and exactly what I ordered. My biggest issue was with the dealer.

I have one other custom on order and I hope there are no issues with it.

My EVH had to be sent back to have the neck replaced after it warped. It did take a while to finally get it back but I ended up with a new guitar and it was perfect.

All my other guitars I have bought after getting a chance to get my hands on them and I have had no issues with any of them.

It would be interesting to know how many guitars have issues compared to their overall production. Maybe it is low single digits? All we truly know is that the percentage of guitars ordered by members of this board have a lot of issues.

I can't speak directly for Jackson employees but from the ones I have had the pleasure to talk with I have noticed they take great pride in their work. They do not want inferior products in the marketplace. Hopefully constructive concerns will get back to them and they will take this as an opportunity to improve QC and ease fears.

[Inazone]

I haven't purchased a new Jackson since early 2002. I put down a deposit on a SL2GX from GuitarXpress, but when ship dates were repeatedly missed, I started wondering if I'd be really happy with the specs (gold hardware, TOM bridge) on a guitar I wanted to gig with. I called Lloyd and had him apply my $$$ toward a new 2001 KV2, one of the last KV2s built under AMIC ownership. It was truly a beautiful guitar, and my second USA Jackson, but I was a bit pissed that for $1425 they couldn't put the right locking nut on it. Not only was it spaced wrong, but there was a burr in it. I took it to an authorized Jackson repair shop, but they were told that Jackson wouldn't honor the warranty because it *might* be a "player abuse" issue. This was a tech who knew me well and did all my setup and mod work, but his hands were tied. I had the nut replaced and all was well, but over time I decided that I was more comfortable with the Soloist shape and traded with a JCFer for an SL2. Life was good.

I didn't buy another new Jackson (excluding an NOS RR2) until early 2006, when the DK2Ms were announced. It took awhile for the trans finishes to ship, but it was well worth the wait! HOLY CRAP, that guitar is the textbook definition of quality! No buzz or crackle or flaws of any kind. I would have paid twice as much for the same guitar and still be extremely pleased with it. If the Jackson USA builders haven't had a chance to look at the Japanese models lately, they really should. That DK2M, at around $600, smokes every guitar I've picked up at a local shop in the past year. Meanwhile, people are paying two or three times as much for ESPs and Caparisons, and aside from the negligible improvements of a Schaller or OFR, can't possibly be any better. I mean, it's simply the best playing and sounding STOCK guitar I've eve owned...and there is no need to mod it.

[Soloist1]

And that's exactly what happened. If you remember back on the ezboard days before the FMIC buyout, AMIC Jackson was at an all time complaint high... After the purchase, QC was almost instantly better.

Recently, it seems that QC has been slipping. Perhaps it is due to a higher manufacturing volume... The price increases and not taking orders for a time would seem to reflect this. So now there's more volume, and now people have more work to do. Hiring new people to install electronics and perform final QC will be fresh meat and inexperienced, and more likely to let stuff slip by until they get chewed out.

And Shreddermon has a valid point... Jackson HAS had a bad QC record when it comes to limited production runs. Remember all the issues with JCF-01? Paint runs, V plates not aligned to the string ferrule holes, and all sorts of problems...

So it seems that Jackson is having serious problems with growing pains. Hopefully it'll be resolved very soon.

That is news to me considering my Warrior was the last custom guitar to come out of the shop before FMIC bought them. Also the Guitar Express bullseye Charvel Strat is the only Charvel axe that I ever hear was done right. None of Shreddermon's posts seem to valid to me. You can tell me to my face that my axe sucks. And I would give shits zero. If you said something about my wife to my face I would beat the fucking hell out of you.

[CharvelRocker]

That is news to me considering my Warrior was the last custom guitar to come out of the shop before FMIC bought them. Also the Guitar Express bullseye Charvel Strat is the only Charvel axe that I ever hear was done right. None of Shreddermon's posts seem to valid to me. You can tell me to my face that my axe sucks. And I would give shits zero. If you said something about my wife to my face I would beat the fucking hell out of you.

If there was only one run of Charvel guitars that was ever done right post FMIC there would be no Charvel guitars.

[ABSOLUT CHARVEL]

I'm starting to feel real good about my MIJ Charvels about now.

As a rule of thumb, I don't buy any cars that are a first year run (new models). They seem to take a couple of years to get the buggs out. Just like an operating system for a computer (ie. XP and now Vista) when it is patch hell. Seems this rule may apply to limited runs also.

[danastas]

In my experience, as bad as the custom runs have been lately, the quality is still much higher than what comes out of Mexico or Korea. I can't speak for Japan because I haven't played an import from there recently but there are a few threads in the other manufacturers section complaining about the quality of imports. The other manufacturer is Fender.

I've played an Epi Joe Pass that might have been from Japan, and that too is nowhere near the quality of the older models. Not to even mention the Ibanez Joe Pass's which were sweet guitars.

[cookiemonster2]

I can't understand why people on this board like to argue so much about whether quality was better under previous owners vs. the current owner of Jackson. Unless we actually had some accurate defect statistics no one can say for sure so why bother to continue discussing that issue? Even if you could prove QC problems were all on account of Fender ownership, then what?

On the other hand, there is enough anecdotal evidence on this board that currently the defects comming out of Jackson are too common considering the dollars these things cost and the fact Jackson markets itself on high quality but all you can do is realize you are taking a chance when you order a CS. Is the defect rate 1/20, 1/10, 1/2? We'll never know exactly but before you commit to buying a $$$$ guitar you have to be prepared to get a lemon. It sucks but that's reality. Jackson hasn't indicated publicly that they acknowledge these problems or they have anything to fix so factor that into your decision. If they are doing things to fix the problems you'ld think they would tell their customers that. That's what American car manufacturers did when they tried to win back customers. I guess things haven't gotten bad enough on Jackson's end for them to think they need to win back customers.

[danastas]

Not really, and yes you can.

They are different, but they are guitars. When the fit, finish, and electronics on a cheap one work flawlessly, and the one you paid $3000 for comes with loose screws and poor/dead wiring, I would say one has EVERY right to go overboard. No questions there.

A custom guitar should be taken care of the way a good Democrat would take care of a welfare recipient - HAND HELD from cradle to grave. There should be NO issues with it when it goes out the door. Period! We aren't talking about a technological marvel here - it's a frickin' guitar!! I've built a couple of my own - it's not rocket science if I can do it. When you pay that kind of money, you should expect perfection.

When a mass produced cheapo guitar comes out with less flaws (beyond set-up) than a custom shop "masterpiece", there are obvious QC issues that need RIGHT NOW attention.

How can you compare a guitar with a circuit board and 10x the electronics to one without it? No one is bagging on the work done to the Pots and Caps on this thing. It's the dang sustainer that's giving everyone problems. This is the piece of electronics that Jackson charges $900 for, manufactured by Floyd Rose. It seems to me that these guitars arrived in excellent condition except for the sustainer, and if you look at a sustainer and compare it to the electronics needed for a regular pickup, there's a huge difference.

Jackson has been having these issues with the sustainer in the PC1 for a long long time. You have a few posters on this board that have become experts in repairing the expected sustainer problem, precisely because--it may very well be--such sensitive electronics were never meant to be placed in a guitar in a first place. Jackson really needs to reconfigure that system because the circuit board is too large and the adapters have no clearance room against the backplate. Those guitars are in need of a bigger route, but of course that would effect the sound. This is a design problem much more so than it is a quality control problem, and experts in the PC1 have pointed this out. The design is flawed, the sustainer is flawed, the batter cavity is flawed, and that's why there are about 100 threads on this board that start, "Just bought a PC1, great guitar, the sustainer isn't working."