Yet another bitch about Jackson thread

[danastas]

I think the reason why people argue this is the exact same reason they visit the board. A lot of us have investments in these guitars. We may not have bought them as investments (I know I haven't) but that doesn't mean we can care less about the market value of these guitars. If the company develops a bad rep, that's going to effect the value. and I think that's why we're discussing this point.

[neilli]

I'm not sure that many of us are here because of the investment itself - we're here cos we like the guitars enough to make that investment, and it sucks when the end result doesn't stand up to even a minor critique...

[Newc]

JIT looks great on paper but, as was stated before, puts more stress on the workforce to satisfy a mathematical formula of supply and demand.

I'm on the 5S/Lean team at work, and the guy who oversees the entire committee is pushing the Just In Time and frequent speedy changeovers subject, even though he doesn't have to do any of the physical labor that is involved. His point is "well, let's figure out WHY we can't do that, so we can figure out hwo we CAN do it". We try to tell him the facts: you will need new, faster presses, 3 dedicated tool&die people on all 4 shifts who do absolutely nothing but changeovers, a tight tolerance for die alignment that is followed 100% of the time, machines that run flawlessly, immediately fire the guy that has everything in the building wired "his" way and that has "magic passwords" into the computers so he has "job security", have his butchery completely reversed by the company that made the equipment, then rewired to suit our needs, and you need raw material of the highest quality as well as unquestionable fittings.
And you have 3 days to get all of that in place if you expect to see JIT implelemented here.

It will never happen because the first thing the company sees is that it's going to cost them a ton of money up front, on top of the money they've already spent on equipment that is sitting against the back wall rotting away and has been for 3 years while they figure out exactly what they want from the equipment, and they wait for their handful of sample parts to pass 1 million test cycles.

In the meantime, the new Beancounters are focusing on Inventory and saying "here's where you're losing money - you've got things that aren't making you money that you're paying taxes on".

In reality, companies are losing money to the millionaire executives and not putting enough money into the effective repair and total replacement of bad equipment in a timely manner. While a 400 Ton press is not designed to hit 400 tons more than 5 times in a row, when it can't run at half that for more than a month, you need a new one, and you need a higher tonnage.

As for JC issues, my War Angel had none. The neck was straight, the bridge was straight, the frets were great, the pickup was aligned properly, and there were no finish flaws. Aside from one pinhead-sized stain on the binding where they stained the board to make it look like ebony should, it has no issues.
The neck pocket on my 7-string was cut incorrectly, and thus the strings were not aligned. You don't need to be a Master Luthier to see that when a neck bolt goes in crooked yet the neck/string alignment is straight, the neck and body were drilled wrong.

If Jackson would fix it exactly like I tell them to - by sinking two set pins through the heel and pocket flush with the wood and under the neckplate, then bolting the neck back on - and they can get it done in less than 10 days, I'll send it back. However, I know they won't do it the way I tell them to, and it'll sit in the "screw you" corner for 2 years while they let Pablo run loose building whatever pops into his head rather than getting the money-makers out the door. They already have the money for a guitar they already sold, so why should they be in a hurry to fix it?

Bolting a neck to a guitar is not rocket science - clamp it down, put the two outer strings on it, tighten them up so you get a nice straight edge, then drill.

I've done that myself using a clamp I bought at WalMart, so why doesn't a professional builder like Jackson have an idiot-proof jig that aligns the heel and pocket? Where is the standardization? There is no "artistic interpretation" when it comes to drilling holes. You either have a rigid standard that everyone follows or you fire the people that cannot/will not follow the standard.

[chrisolson]

How can you compare a guitar with a circuit board and 10x the electronics to one without it? It's the dang sustainer that's giving everyone problems. This is the piece of electronics that Jackson charges $900 for, manufactured by Floyd Rose.

Not just the Sustainer, dude. Loose screws, etc. on $3000 guitars??? WTF!?! I mean, if Fernandes can give you a guitar with a working sustainer for $500 or less, why can't Jackson? Is it really worth $900 just because it's in a Jackson? There's more than one complaint here however - it's not just the PC's getting bagged on. The sustainer is just a symptom of a bigger sickness.

[danastas]

Right, as I said (or tried to say in my post) I don't look at these guitars as investments (i.e. I don't expect to make money on them) but they are of value and I prize them. If the company's rep goes to crap, then they're worth less. That's not good.

I was a lot more alarmed by the Sub and Dweezil run than I am by the PC1 run. These PC1s always have their issues. Redesign the dang thing already. It's one of their more popular custom guitars, and yet the whole design of the guitar is a problem, as many of us well know.

[danastas]

Not just the Sustainer, dude. Loose screws, etc. on $3000 guitars??? WTF!?! I mean, if Fernandes can give you a guitar with a working sustainer for $500 or less, why can't Jackson? Is it really worth $900 just because it's in a Jackson? There's more than one complaint here however - it's not just the PC's getting bagged on. The sustainer is just a symptom of a bigger sickness.

Agreed, there's no excuse for a loose screw on the locking nut. By the way, as I said, the other issues are huge. I'm just not dismayed by the sustainer problem. And yeah there's a substantial difference between a Fernandes and a Jackson sustainer. The Jackson one is much better. Not worth $900 though, but I was just pointing out that the system costs more than some of the imports are worth. If you've ever taken the plate off the back of a PC1, it's a real eye opener. Let me tell you. A circuit board with a bunch of adapters and wires mashed into the board. At some point you begin to realize, hey, maybe digital electronics were never meant to sit inside a pocket like that?

[Newc]

I've yet to hear anyone here who has a DK2S say anything bad about the Sustainiac.
At least it's only a 5-inch by 2-inch board. I'd imagine the PC-1 Sustainer looks like a laptop motherboard.


But then every time this topic comes up, there's some major smokescreen from the company.
"We've just been bought out by FMIC, and we're moving to a new location, so things are in a state of flux..."
Which then leads to "We're aware of the problems so we're not taking new orders to clear the backlog",
which then leads to "We've got Grover Jackson back in but we're not detailing his exact role in the company".

There's always something going on that "might" have some positive effect on the state of things, but in reality very little improvement is made.

I do not expect new Custom Shop orders to be processed any faster than before, and I do not expect Grover to come in and retrain everyone how to build them as good as they do in Japan. I expect a lot of smoke and very little heat.

[xenophobe]

That is news to me considering my Warrior was the last custom guitar to come out of the shop before FMIC bought them. Also the Guitar Express bullseye Charvel Strat is the only Charvel axe that I ever hear was done right. None of Shreddermon's posts seem to valid to me. You can tell me to my face that my axe sucks. And I would give shits zero. If you said something about my wife to my face I would beat the fucking hell out of you.

WTF? Exactly what part of that are you directing at me?

JCF-01 was AMIC. Almost the whole batch was fucked up. SL2GX the first one I got was fucked up. Returned. The replacement was perfect... well, there was minor finish flaw that you had to look really closely to see. A nitpick that 9 out of 10 people wouldn't see...

The USA Selects and limited runs from AMIC Jackson were having abnormally high defect rates before the buyout. I'm not making it up, nor am I rewriting history.

[kinde69]

Sad to read about the issues with the PC1 limited run that was just done...My custom order arrived yesterday and you could read what kind of difficulties I had with it...

http://www.jcfonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67364

[ken]

I have a naive question: has anyone thought of getting their CS pieces made at the Japanese Jackson Stars CS shop instead?

If not, is it only because the logo would be "Jackson Stars" and would be missing "Made in USA" and "custom shop"?

A Jackson Stars CS guitar seems like a good idea to me, for reasons including:

(1) They can make all the same body styles as in the US.

(2) Their equivalent of the "select series", the J1s, seem to be well received.

(3) Reading old threads about semi-custom guitars on the board, it appears that if they're in doubt during the build process, they're communicative.

(4) Even their usual factory seems well adapted for individual orders: semi-custom options, base guitars come with a range of bridges, pickups, etc.

(5) The build time is bound to be shorter.

(6) There's no import duty from Japan to the US.

Everyone agrees that the MIJ imports are excellent quality for the price. I'm sure that the J1/J2s are not sold in the US for business reasons. Why not see what they can do with a CS piece?

Incidentally, I don't own a Jackson Stars, but come June [fingers crossed] I will. I tried to order a semi-custom, but as it's a 7-string, they're calling it a custom. This is despite the fact that it doesn't appear to be at custom prices and has a four month build time.

Also I don't own, nor have I ordered, a US CS guitar. I have two USA Selects, one of which was bought sight unseen, and both are superb. I love the CS guitars I've seen posted here, but would be seriously put off by the QC issues unless I won the lottery so I hadn't really "invested" in the idea.

[Jem]

Hey guys, just thought I'd add my bit to this thread (and give you all a chance to shout N00B and point!).

I'm in the UK and bought an SL3 from a London shop mail order at the end of January. Not always the best idea, but I figured I wanted something as similar to my old '90 Charvel Model 6 as possible (long story!). The SL3 fitted the bill nicely as I couldn't find a 2nd hand Model 6 or 650XL in the country.

It was delivered after a few weeks but, despite the box being totally unmarked, the guitar inside had two huge dents on it, the neck was back-bowed and the 15th fret is sitting ever so slightly proud causing buzzing even after I set it up.

So I'm sitting here waiting on a replacement to be sent from Jackson to the London shop and then out to me. I've been waiting 4 weeks and could be another 4 weeks before I see anything. The reason being the new EU ROHS (Restriction of Hazardous Substances) legislation meaning that lead-soldered electronics can't be imported any more.

Soooo, 2 thoughts struck me. Firstly, damage to the instrument was prior to shipping as evidenced by the undamaged box, so quality control in Japan also seems to be a bit of a problem.

Secondly, just maybe, the delays and lack of QC are partly down to Jackson having to re-wire large amounts of stock to maintain their European sales. This is bound to have some knock-on effect and given the stupid timescales for delivery of instruments, appears to be something Jackson totally overlooked until it hit them...

[kinde69]

The Japanese Jackson will have some quality problems as well. I believe that in NAMM there would be the BEST of the BEST...Well, here is the picture taken by JCF-member at last NAMM. Look at those bevels!!! The left one is ok but the right one is made differently...Just compare and you will see that the right one is lower than the left one.



This picture was shooted from white 24RR at last NAMM...sad but true...I STILL WANT ONE

[hippietim]

Agreed, there's no excuse for a loose screw on the locking nut. By the way, as I said, the other issues are huge. I'm just not dismayed by the sustainer problem. And yeah there's a substantial difference between a Fernandes and a Jackson sustainer. The Jackson one is much better. Not worth $900 though, but I was just pointing out that the system costs more than some of the imports are worth. If you've ever taken the plate off the back of a PC1, it's a real eye opener. Let me tell you. A circuit board with a bunch of adapters and wires mashed into the board. At some point you begin to realize, hey, maybe digital electronics were never meant to sit inside a pocket like that?

You're not dismayed by the PC1 issue but the Dweezils and Subs issues bother you? That's truly odd.

The Jackson sustainer is not much better. I've played the Fernandes and it works just as well - in fact, I have a Fernandes kit sitting here I've been planning on putting on a guitar.

As for digital electronics in the pocket, I agree that would be pushing it - leave that sort of thing to Behringer and Line 6. Fortunately the sustainer is not digital

There are lots of guitar electronics that have circuit boards and tons of wires - such as all of those active Jackson circuits, EMG circuits, etc.

All of the sustainer issues with this run were because of IMPROPER INSTALLATION BY JACKSON! A couple had wires crossed - they are fucking color coded! A simple test would have verified that. A couple had poorly installed/wired battery boxes. None of these problems has anything to do with the sustainer itself.

[StukaJU87]

JCF-01 was AMIC. Almost the whole batch was fucked up. SL2GX the first one I got was fucked up. Returned. The replacement was perfect... well, there was minor finish flaw that you had to look really closely to see. A nitpick that 9 out of 10 people wouldn't see...

The USA Selects and limited runs from AMIC Jackson were having abnormally high defect rates before the buyout. I'm not making it up, nor am I rewriting history.

JCF-02, under FMIC, had its share of problems too. Let's not forget that they were all painted with the wrong finish and had to be stripped and refinned. Wrong tuners too. Just sayin'.

[chrisolson]

I'm just not dismayed by the sustainer problem. And yeah there's a substantial difference between a Fernandes and a Jackson sustainer.

Nor was I - you brought it up in your first reply to my post, and I was just replying to the point you were making. I could care less about the sustainer. I don't use them - never have, never will. Difference or not, at least the Fernandes works as it is supposed to, and it works in a $500 guitar!