Yet another bitch about Jackson thread

[GryphonGuitar]

Perhaps what we're seeing is much the same as in the car industry... The Japanese are kicking our asses when it comes to total quality control. These days I'd trust almost anything MIJ...

[hippietim]

"Rampant", eh? Thanks for the Fox News-like reporting on my statement. I seem to recall saying there was a "fair bit" going on.

IMHO, it would be very uncool to "call out" other peoples' opinions or guitars like that. They're entitled to their opinions, I'm entitled to mine. We don't need to encourage yet another silly flame war over this stuff.

I'm not asking you to call out peoples' guitars. You have stated on a number of occasions that people are nitpicking. I want to know what constitutes nitpicking to you. Otherwise your point is irrelevant.

That's a fair question. Over the last, say, five years or so, I've gotten about 16 J/C custom shop guitars. Of those:

- 1 had a clear QC problem: a broken sustainer mount.

- 1 had a possible QC problem: cracked clearcoat in the neck pocket. Hard to say for sure, but I suspect this was actually shipping damage related to sliding around inside the cruddy non-form-fitting G&G case.

- 1 had a debatable (admittedly minor) QC problem: sloppy paint work in the trem recess area. Most guys who saw the pics thought it looked a little cruddy, but was acceptably "normal". I didn't agree, and sent it back anyway.

So, depending on your opinion, split the difference and call it 2 guitars out of 16 with QC issues. Every other guitar was absolutely great. A perfect record? Nope. A horrific crisis? Nope. Mostly excellent, with a couple of ding-dongs. Still needs improvement, though.

In addition to the above, though, I've also had poor customer service experiences:

- Price quotes and work orders taking months to get done. (This seems to have improved recently, though.)

- Finished guitars taking months to ship.

- Damaged guitars (see above) not being rebuilt in a reasonable timeframe. (Now 9 months and counting since being sent back, over 2 years since originally ordered.)

- Guitar orders just not being built. Two years since originally ordered, just cancelled.

So that's my personal experience. And my opinions are largely based on them, along with some flavor added from others' experiences as well. To each his own. Again, IMHO, the situation needs improvement. But the sky ain't falling.

So 12% of your guitars have had QC issues. That's not very good. Most companies strive for defect rates in the low single digits and would freak out if their QC was letting that ratio of defective merchandise out the door.

I will ignore the guitars with minor issues so 33% of mine had issues. 40% of the PC-1s had messed up electronics, 20% of the Solars had to be sent back (another 60% had minor issues) plus some had the wrong cases, 90% of the Russian subs went back to be rebuilt, I don't know the total but I know of at least 4 Greenies that had issues and 1 or 2 were sent back so that's at least 20% for the Greenies, etc. Heck, one of our members posted his kickass new dream guitar that had to be rebuilt.

Those are very bad percentages Pat. And that's just what I could think of while I was typing. On top of that you have poor customer service, dealers bailing on the line, and they raised the prices substantially.

So exactly how much worse does it have to get before you would consider it a crisis Pat?

[RandyRhoads]

With all the problems that people seem to be having with CS Jackson's it makes me wonder if the custom orders made by celebrity/well known guitarists have the same problems too (or do you think they get more work spent on them)!

Anyway, I agree with an earlier post about having no problems with imports. Where I live in the UK, there are no dealers that stock/supply USA's so all the Jackson's I have are imports and I too have never experienced any problems with mine (well, my Rhoads had a TINY, almost unnoticeable crack on it, but that was made aware to me before I purchased it and as a result they knocked some of the price off which was cool seen as how it didn't have any kind of a negative affect on the guitar)!

[shreddermon]

I'm not asking you to call out peoples' guitars. You have stated on a number of occasions that people are nitpicking. I want to know what constitutes nitpicking to you. Otherwise your point is irrelevant.

Whatever. Thanks for your opinion of my opinion. I find it equally irrelevant.

I will ignore the guitars with minor issues so 33% of mine had issues. 40% of the PC-1s had messed up electronics, 20% of the Solars had to be sent back (another 60% had minor issues) plus some had the wrong cases, 90% of the Russian subs went back to be rebuilt, I don't know the total but I know of at least 4 Greenies that had issues and 1 or 2 were sent back so that's at least 20% for the Greenies, etc. Heck, one of our members posted his kickass new dream guitar that had to be rebuilt.

And 4 of the 5 examples you're citing were limited run groups. Notice a pattern? Don't assume it applies to all guitars being built.

[hippietim]

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This is one Kool-Axe!

[hippietim]

Whatever. Thanks for your opinion of my opinion. I find it equally irrelevant.

The problem is you aren't sharing your full opinion with us, just a partial. Sort of like the J/C QC philosophy.

And 4 of the 5 examples you're citing were limited run groups. Notice a pattern? Don't assume it applies to all guitars being built.

What does the guitars being part of limited runs have to do with the QC of the individual guitars? If anything I would think that simplifies the QC process. Also, as I said, those were off the top of my head and I didn't really want to go down the list of other peoples' guitars too much either. But there are plenty Pat and you know it - the limited guitars just have much more visibility because of the participation.

[fett]

The one thing I really don't get is the delay in shipping a completed guitar. That makes no sense to me. "The guitar is done. Get it the fuk out of here before something happens to it." That's how I would do it.

[shadowcat]

A custom builder would increase staff to meet the demand or stop taking orders until they were caught up.

They did stop taking orders for several months recently to catch up. However it seems like they didn't use the time to improve QC.

[fett]

They did stop taking orders for several months recently to catch up. However it seems like they didn't use the time to improve QC.

Well, that's even worse. There is a systemic problem. And that will have to be worked out. Do the buyers have the patience to wait until they fix it. Or have they lost it?

[777]

Would it be fair to say that USA Jackson quality has dropped, and import Jackson quality gotten up? A lot of people are raving about the new imports, while we start hearing about more and more QC issues with the USA Selects.

It IS fair to say that! Iv'e said that when playing a RR1t next to an RR5 made in JAPAN, absoultey no quailty issues with that guitar and the RR1t wasn't worth the extra money because of MOP and binding. (you know I had to get that in there )


p.s. Sorry about your PC1 Tim, for that kind of cash you should be pissed!!!

[skorb]

I think people put too much blame on FMIC. IIRC someone here said that Akai had run it into the ground, but the effects werent quite starting to take effect then. Now because of Akai's ownership, we're at where we are now.

bro, with all due respect, that makes no sense whatsoever.

quality now, is due to things going on now, not 7 years ago.

[shreddermon]

The problem is you aren't sharing your full opinion with us, just a partial. Sort of like the J/C QC philosophy.

What does the guitars being part of limited runs have to do with the QC of the individual guitars?

Tim, if I saw a picture of your wife and thought she was bat-shit ugly, would you appreciate me stating that opinion on this board? I don't think so. It's kind of the same thing, you know? Common decency. Your opinion of where the line for it should exist may be different than mine.

And my opinions on QC are just as valid as your's - or anyone elses - no matter how much you try to goad it into a public flamefest.

As to the limited runs, you assume they have the same levels of QC issues as all J/C guitars, just more visability by volume. I have the opinion that they have a track record of being the worse than typical, but agree that it is exacerbated by their higher visability. Neither of us have enough empirical evidience to back it up - or any of this - as "fact".

[CharvelRocker]

So bad quality is a delayed reaction? Ha never knew that. Interesting. Very interesting.

I never said it was a delayed reaction as much as it was going down hill and by the tiem FMIC bought them things were hitting rock bottom. It cant be FMIC. Ive rarely heard of issues with Fenders custom shop, and there dont seem to be too many issues with USA Fenders and Gretsch either.

[shreddermon]

P.S.- For all I know, Tim's banging Kathy f'n Ireland. That was not an actual insult thrown at his wife. Just an illustrative example.

[Budman68]

I'm trying so hard to stay out of this thread but I just can't.

Simple question then.

Why isn't anything being done?