Yet another bitch about Jackson thread

[shreddermon]

I'm sorry I'm not being more sensitive Pat. Uh, yeah, right, I'm going to start being PC about how I express myself on this board with this group of folks - I don't think so.

PC? Who said anything about being PC? There's a difference between being PC and being respectful.

Geesh, Tim, I really am sorry about your PC1. You have a legitimate QC issue. As do others who had trouble. Thankfully, the sustainer thing turned out OK. But, in any event, the "fuck yous" probably aren't going to help the situation. That's all I'm trying to say.

[Budman68]

"fukk yous" can work and do work. There's a reason the saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" is still around. As much as I would love to think that the saying "you can get more bees with honey" would work, when you've taken it up the ass like the Jackson Charvel customers have lately, unfortunately I think we're beyond that point.

Pat, I would still like to know a specific situation that you would think,

"ok, things are in a crisis now".

seriously, how bad does it have to get to get you to say something like that?

[hippietim]

PC? Who said anything about being PC? There's a difference between being PC and being respectful.

Geesh, Tim, I really am sorry about your PC1. You have a legitimate QC issue. As do others who had trouble. Thankfully, the sustainer thing turned out OK. But, in any event, the "fuck yous" probably aren't going to help the situation. That's all I'm trying to say.

Again you twist my words. I never said fuck you to anyone, but am now thinking I should I have not made it personal - for me it's all about me/we/us (aka. the customers) being pissed about the quality of guitars and service from them (aka. Jackson). I've never said fuck YOU, fuck THEM, or called them the ANTI-CHRIST. Those are YOUR words Pat. You really take this stuff personally because it is very clear to me that you are reading things that weren't written or implied.

As for being respectful - to some large corporation? Tcha, as if. Why should I be? Besides, we tried that path and it didn't work. I'm done with that. Besides, they are not being considerate to me as a customer so why should I be considerate to them?

[shreddermon]

"I say fuck it and fuck buying any more of their new guitars"

Geesh, excuse FUCKIN' me for not fucking quoting you fuckin directly. Next fuckin time, I'll be sure to only use the fucking written word on the fucking page, because there's no fuckin way your exact quote above could be interpreted as meaning "fuck you" to J/C.

I'm not taking this personal, Tim. But you seem to be doing your damnedest to goad it into something like that. What is up with that? ...I'm not trying to throttle you more. I honestly want to understand.

Dave: I already answered that as well as I can.

[hippietim]

"I say fuck it and fuck buying any more of their new guitars"

Geesh, excuse FUCKIN' me for not fucking quoting you fuckin directly. Next fuckin time, I'll be sure to only use the fucking written word on the fucking page, because there's no fuckin way your exact quote above could be interpreted as meaning "fuck you" to J/C. .

Well, you were being all nitpicky with me so I was being all nitpicky with you. So nanny-nanny-nanner

I'm not taking this personal, Tim. But you seem to be doing your damnedest to goad it into something like that. What is up with that? ...I'm not trying to throttle you more. I honestly want to understand.

Oh man, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. I'm not trying to goad you into anything. I post. You respond. I respond. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Tell ya what. I'll make it easy for you, I'm done replying to you on this thread. Say whatever you want, I will not be goaded any further by you.

[Budman68]

Dave: I already answered that as well as I can.

well let's take a poll here then shall we? I think we should all be honest and participate accordingly and possibly if the majority says they're unhappy with Jackson/Charvel USA lately, is that enough to be a crisis for you Pat? Please understand that I'm not targeting you, but since you're taking a stand that they are not in crisis, (and the most vocal about it ), I'm trying to understand the mindset that lets a person think that this situation is not that bad. I completely understand that everyone has their own values and what they think is good vs. bad but if there are THIS many people unhappy, how can it be anything else? In any case, why even wait until it is a crisis? By then, the damage may be irreversible.

Possibly I'm just not intelligent enough to pick up on this whole business thing and maybe I don't use the best words in an online forum, but I for one would be worried if all these unsatisfactory customers were mine......word of mouth, Pat....word of mouth can make or break a business and I would just hate to see this happen in this case.

[Inazone]

You must not be reading the right posts, they are already losing business because of the QC issues. It's to the point where some have stopped even taking CS orders!

I *know* they are losing business over this, but obviously no dealer *wants* that to happen. Especially not on what is to many prospective buyers a premiere brand. They are associating themselves not only with the Jackson/Charvel name as dealers, but also with our small but vocal community as sponsors. I'm not saying that dealers have any pull with the manufacturer directly, but if it is getting back to the sales reps, maybe it'll miraculously flow back uphill to JCMI.

This entire thread is page after page of "It's worse than you think" posts versus "It could be worse" responses. Jackson is occupying a space between BC Rich (low-end junk, a few decent midrange guitars, no USA offerings at retail level) and Dean (overpriced USA models attached to a handful of current "hero" players, several midrange guitars that nobody knows about due to lack of Dime/Mustaine connection ala EVO series, some low-end junk), and it's a slippery slope on which to exist. Countless times, I have read that the difference between J/C and other brands is that you are paying for good wood and nice finishes. It's great that there are guys like Mike Learn adding something new at the custom paint level, but the long-time buyers tend to be far more concerned with build quality than looks. I know that I can buy a nice used Jackson, beat the shit out of it, and then have it repainted, as long as the guitar itself provides a solid base for the look I want.

What I'm getting out of this thread, and others like it, is that JCMI needs to go back to the fundamental reasons that people have kept buying their guitars while other brands have faded into `80s nostalgia status. People are finding flaws, some major and some minor, and that shouldn't the case, but there's nothing for forum members to disagree over. Either a guitar is flawed or it isn't.

[shredmonster]

You won't find numerous issues like these with Suhr, Anderson or Tyler.

And that's the way it should be with Jackson. Until they get their act together reasonable to these other builders my business is going elsewhere and that's the bottom line.

[Mikernaut2]

I'd love to be able to order another CS Demon or an Xtrr as I'm gassing for one big time currently. But it seems that with a drastic price increase or rumors that they arent even taking more orders this idea is kaput.


Growing up I never had enough $ to buy higherend( USA select/Custom) Jacksons. Now that I finally have a decent paying job I was like " now I can get some cool Jacksons created". Well I'm damn glad I ordered a Demon when I did, because now I feel I might not be able to justify ordering again with a drastic price increase.

Now I received my Demon at the end of December and it was flawless and they nailed my idea. I was very impressed, but after a month or so I noticed some hairline cracks in the ebony board. Now my apartment is abit on the dry side but I condition the boards often and have never had problems with any of my other ebony boards. So yeah this bums me out that something like this happened and so soon on my dream guitar. Now was subpar wood used? or could it just be my own negligence and I should actually invest in a humidifier.

That being said if the prices didnt increase I would order another CS cuz I have atleast 2 Ideas I would loved to bring to life and I'm not into any new guitars other companies are putting out currently.

[shreddermon]

Oh man, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. I'm not trying to goad you into anything. I post. You respond. I respond. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

OK, what am I missing? Explain to me? You see, from my perspective, I keep asking if people (self included) can try and throttle back their attitudes, treat each other respectfully, and discuss this in a calm and rational way. But it seems like every time I make such a suggestion, it's pretty much thrown back in my face with more attitude. I don't see any effort on the other side. In fact, I see it being consistently rejected. Maybe I can't see through your written words to some meaning I'm not getting? Help me/us understand why that's so just for disagreeing with you that's it's a "singificant problem" but not a "crisis"?

well let's take a poll here then shall we? I think we should all be honest and participate accordingly and possibly if the majority says they're unhappy with Jackson/Charvel USA lately, is that enough to be a crisis for you Pat?

Actually, Dave, no, I don't think that will work. IMHO, the situation has a very vocal minority who believe the situation is severe. In other words, the people who are most likely to vote in a poll are those who have a gripe. Which will skew the results. I think we discussed this concept in another thread, though I forget which. i.e., Satisfied customers usually won't say or care enough to be vocal or participate, but dissatisfied customers will go out of their way to tell everyone so. It doesn't mean the dissatisfied people don't haave a legitimate gripe. It just means that the perception (poll results) will appear worse than the reality of how bad things are.



Eh, whatever. It's sad and disappointing that this has to drive people apart. That is what I was trying to get at and change all along.

[shredmonster]

My Custom Shop Demon is the best guitar I have ever layed my hands on. The sound and playability are more than I expected. And it looks killer.

That being said they almost screwed up the body because I ordered the horns reversed - longer on the top and shorter on the bottom - I specifically told them to make sure it had great upper fret access. They just reversed the body without cutting anymore room in the lower horn to access the higher frets !!

Lloyd (Guitar Xpress) sent me a pic of the guitar still in the building process - but the body was painted at that time. I called Lloyd and said they had not followed the instructions when building it. The redid it and it of course took months to do.

Now I have some fretting out at the higher frets on the high E string. I am taking it in because one of the frets is too high at one particular spot. Could be humidity changing the fret board - don't know because I had to set it up when I got it. I opened the box when the guitar was cold not knowing any better and the truss rod shifted and every single string was bottoming out right against the frets.
Or maybe that is just the way it was built. Hard to say at this point.

[neilli]

Growing up I never had enough $ to buy higherend( USA select/Custom) Jacksons. Now that I finally have a decent paying job I was like " now I can get some cool Jacksons created". Well I'm damn glad I ordered a Demon when I did, because now I feel I might not be able to justify ordering again with a drastic price increase.

That's exactly the same situation with me. I'm glad I got in when I did....

I've ordered 4 CS guitars - the first came with recessed controls which I didn't want, the second had to be rebuilt after 9 months cos they built it with 24 frets not 22, and the third is a bolt-on and has just been painted after 13 months. No news of note on the 4th.

Not a particularly glowing indication of efficiency at the factory is it?

Personally, I'm not happy with the service that J/C have provided to me, and have shelved my plans for more orders. That's a real shame, cos I sooo wanted a Jackson strathead. I guess I'd have to come down on the side of the 'this is a significant problem' brigade. Getting an expensive CS guitar shouldn't be a lottery, in terms of wait times, deviation from spec or QC....

Whatever, the thing to remember through all of this is that people are only getting heated cos they care about the guitars, and about not getting ripped off.

[charvelguy]

It sounds like the time crunch, which, if you have rework.. is causing some mistakes at the shop... in the most domino way.

[Budman68]

Actually, Dave, no, I don't think that will work. IMHO, the situation has a very vocal minority who believe the situation is severe. In other words, the people who are most likely to vote in a poll are those who have a gripe. Which will skew the results. I think we discussed this concept in another thread, though I forget which. i.e., Satisfied customers usually won't say or care enough to be vocal or participate, but dissatisfied customers will go out of their way to tell everyone so. It doesn't mean the dissatisfied people don't haave a legitimate gripe. It just means that the perception (poll results) will appear worse than the reality of how bad things are.

I disagree, I think since no-one can "see" who's voting, that would allow everyone to participate without having to get..........ya know what, fukk it. We don't need this crap to piss each other off and it's basically waisting time anyhow because it's obvious they're not listening anyway.

Very disappointing.....yep, I said it again and I'm now done ranting in these threads because there are a lot more important things to do and worry about. (deja-vu all over again? ).

If I rant in these threads in the future, just give me a good bitch slap and I'll be on my way-

[eakinj]

With all the problems that people seem to be having with CS Jackson's it makes me wonder if the custom orders made by celebrity/well known guitarists have the same problems too (or do you think they get more work spent on them)!

I can't say anything on Jacksons practice but I know Ibanez and Gibson have ghost builders do their celeb guitars and they are held to a much higher standard. All the Slash guitars were made by a ghost builder for gibson.