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Why doesn't the FMT's match either side?

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  • #16
    From what I see, that is a perfect bookmatched top. The person who spoke of "positive" and "negative" grain is dead on correct. Each "line" on that Jackson appears to perfectly correspond to a lighter/darker line on the other side which is the result of seeing the grain from reverse angle. Where the lines meet in the middle, they should not look the same...the light/dark will run opposite.
    Postals post is mostly right, except that this top matches nearly perfectly...I see nothing that is "off" as a result of cutting and sanding.

    Here is a good example to illustrate what I'm talking about...the back of a Breedlove acoustic:

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Shibs View Post
      I did wonder if the Carvin DC400 was a Veneer top, heavy black edging like that is a technique used to hide Veneer edges sometimes, I'm not a big Carvin guy though so I'm not sure about it!
      The black edge is an option that can be added if you want a burst look to it.
      I feel my soul go cold... only the dead are smiling.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Rupe View Post
        From what I see, that is a perfect bookmatched top. The person who spoke of "positive" and "negative" grain is dead on correct. Each "line" on that Jackson appears to perfectly correspond to a lighter/darker line on the other side which is the result of seeing the grain from reverse angle. Where the lines meet in the middle, they should not look the same...the light/dark will run opposite.
        Postals post is mostly right, except that this top matches nearly perfectly...I see nothing that is "off" as a result of cutting and sanding.

        Here is a good example to illustrate what I'm talking about...the back of a Breedlove acoustic:
        whatcha talkin about man? :ROTF: Those lines dont match on either side... the FMT on my guitar matches better than that and I was complaining.
        Sam

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        • #19
          Those lines do match up.... The reflectivity of the grain is that when one side is reflecting the other doesn't and it's exactly the opposite on the bookmatched half...

          So each "light" stripe will match up with the exact corresponding "dark" stripe on the other half of the bookmatch.

          The "light" and "dark" stripes are subjective to what direction the lighting is coming from and what direction you are looking at it.
          The 2nd Amendment: America's Original Homeland Defense.

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          • #20
            o i c. Nice!!
            Sam

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            • #21
              Originally posted by xenophobe View Post
              Those lines do match up.... The reflectivity of the grain is that when one side is reflecting the other doesn't and it's exactly the opposite on the bookmatched half...

              So each "light" stripe will match up with the exact corresponding "dark" stripe on the other half of the bookmatch.

              The "light" and "dark" stripes are subjective to what direction the lighting is coming from and what direction you are looking at it.
              Correct- but it can also be affected (usually for the better) with the specific finishing technique used. Some finishes even out the variation, others enhance it.

              Think of the difference applying a color stain directly to the wood vs a colored finish on top of a sealed guitar.

              Direct stain on wood will help even the difference between both halves, but wil also lock in the refractive traits of the flame grain- the lines will not appear to "move" when shifted in the light.

              Sprayed color finish on top of a sealed wood will also help tone down the differences in the halves but will not lock the grain, and it still has refractive properties, but will not pop the grain like oil or direct stain...

              Oils will enhance the grain far more than the sprayed finish but will also enhance any difference in brightness or color between the two halves.

              In the end, just remember that we're talking about wood. A naturally occurring organic substance with near endless variety. You cant expect each piece to look identical to the last.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by JACKSONFREAK View Post
                Simply pput. When the flame top is cut it's cut half the size of the guitar. Then it's sliced in half and what results is the posative of the grain on one side and the negative on the other side. The lines do line up but your seeing two views of the same section of grain.
                Gil
                But why not just cut a larger piece? Ive seen a few PRS that are tiger
                striped in one full piece...no "bookmatching". Why cut them in half in
                the first place? I know its rare...as only about 1 in 30 PRS's have no
                middle line in the top. Maybe its a necessary evil ?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Shibs View Post
                  I did wonder if the Carvin DC400 was a Veneer top, heavy black edging like that is a technique used to hide Veneer edges sometimes, I'm not a big Carvin guy though so I'm not sure about it!
                  Carvins are... usually an 1/8" cap over the body wood. My Claro Walnut
                  is...the body is walnut..but the top is a figured select piece put on
                  over the bland small grain body wood.

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                  • #24
                    Here is some Carvin Koa for you... Carvin dont need no stinkin' bookmatch!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Robert Burns View Post
                      But why not just cut a larger piece? Ive seen a few PRS that are tiger
                      striped in one full piece...no "bookmatching". Why cut them in half in
                      the first place? I know its rare...as only about 1 in 30 PRS's have no
                      middle line in the top. Maybe its a necessary evil ?
                      Mainly because it's too frikkin expensive top have a single piece of flamed wood as the complete carved top. In the case of a "seemless" flamed top its usualy the case of a veneer overlay on top of a maple cap. Altho the whole top will be maple only the top 1/8in or so will be flamed. If ya pull the pups out and look at the cavity edge you can see the differance in the grain or even the edge of the flamed veneer. ( if its not painted over that is) Sometimes you still can. I've never seen a single piece flamed maple cap on a PRS. Im not saying they dont exsist. Just i've never seen one and i work at a dealer for over 6 years. If there is such a beast its probably a Private Stock and those are upwards of 10-20k and higher.
                      Gil

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Robert Burns View Post
                        But why not just cut a larger piece? Ive seen a few PRS that are tiger
                        striped in one full piece...no "bookmatching". Why cut them in half in
                        the first place? I know its rare...as only about 1 in 30 PRS's have no
                        middle line in the top. Maybe its a necessary evil ?
                        I thought that it was called a Quilt top when its cut to a larger piece. But when I googled up some pics, there seems to be some "book-matching" in a quilt top too. that brings up another question. What's the difference b/n a quilt top and a flamed top? why is there a difference in appearance of the grains?
                        Sam

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                        • #27
                          Here's a photo of your guitar's quilt cousin, my CSB slatqh. The photo was taken with a flash to highlight the book matching. The slab 3/4" thick on slatqhs.



                          Here's a photo in more normal light.



                          Originally posted by emperor_black View Post
                          I thought that it was called a Quilt top when its cut to a larger piece. But when I googled up some pics, there seems to be some "book-matching" in a quilt top too. that brings up another question. What's the difference b/n a quilt top and a flamed top? why is there a difference in appearance of the grains?
                          If you use google to look for "tonewood quilt maple", you'll find all you want to know. For example:

                          Last edited by ken; 07-13-2007, 12:53 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Postal View Post
                            Correct- but it can also be affected (usually for the better) with the specific finishing technique used. Some finishes even out the variation, others enhance it.

                            Think of the difference applying a color stain directly to the wood vs a colored finish on top of a sealed guitar.

                            Direct stain on wood will help even the difference between both halves, but wil also lock in the refractive traits of the flame grain- the lines will not appear to "move" when shifted in the light.
                            That's not exactly true. Think of the grain as the refracting portion of a bike reflector and the stain and finish like the coloring of the clear plastic over it. Sure you can change the color but the variance in wood density and reflectivity are pretty much pre-determined before the wood receives it's first coat of color.

                            The coatings only enhance what the wood is already doing.

                            If you take any figured wood, apply a coat of water or oil to it, you will see this come out temporarily.
                            The 2nd Amendment: America's Original Homeland Defense.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Robert Burns View Post
                              Here is some Carvin Koa for you... Carvin dont need no stinkin' bookmatch!

                              It may not be a book match, but it is two pieces.
                              Nice seem in the middle there.
                              -Rick

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                              • #30
                                Yeah, you can definitely see the seam in the middle. And I believe it is also bookmatched.
                                I feel my soul go cold... only the dead are smiling.

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