An Honest Question

[xenophobe]

I hear from a couple of people that are Jackson owners that their ESP Custom guitars have better fretwork, don't cost as much and ship within 3-5 months of being ordered. Quality is supposed to be on par with Jackson.

The few real "custom" Japanese ESPs that I've seen and played were all very nice... they build fast, provide build pictures, and ship quickly and quality is supposed to be top-notch.

Considering the price difference, if I were ordering another custom, I'd really consider ordering an ESP Custom from DCGL. You can call them and ask how they compare quality wise, and I'm sure they'll give you their honest opinion.

[Jacksonite]

yeah, when you get into the Upper end stuff, like ESP, DEAN, Jackson, and the other super high end stuff, the main difference is going to be mainly preference.

and Xeno, the ESP wait time is growing rapidly from what another dealer told me. so its more like 12 months now realistically. (thats not from ESP, but from another dealer)

[goodwood]

.. for the pricing there are other guitars out there that are better, and honestly, for each model of the LTD there is a "basically" equivalent Schecter out there, for a little bit less, and the QC from Schecter is better than anyones.

ESP owns Schecter. I am not saying that in the 'trash talk' sense...I mean that ESP actually owns Schecter-more acurately, they are owned by the same company. I have noticed in recent years that many of the ESP/LTD style elements have appeared on Schecters and such even though the official statement from ESP says that the Schecter division is run as a completely individual operation.

so the fit and finish is better than that of the LTDs (that I recieved in the store)
I sold only a handful of them, but overall they were just lower quality than the Jackson

Well, I hate to say it but I am glad that all of my LTDs (via eBay-so untouched by me prior to purchase) were from the 'good pile' and were right there against most of the Jacksons (in the same price point and higher) that I have randomly tried.

[pro-fusion]

ESP owns Schecter. I am not saying that in the 'trash talk' sense...I mean that ESP actually owns Schecter-more acurately, they are owned by the same company. I have noticed in recent years that many of the ESP/LTD style elements have appeared on Schecters and such even though the official statement from ESP says that the Schecter division is run as a completely individual operation.

But they're run totally separately; more so than Fender/Jackson, I believe. The only ESP design element I've seen enter the Schecter line is the Horizon body style, and Schecter made some changes even to that. The Korean-made Schecters are sent through the USA Custom shop to have fretwork and QC done, which is why they tend to be higher quality than the LTDs.

Well, I hate to say it but I am glad that all of my LTDs (via eBay-so untouched by me prior to purchase) were from the 'good pile' and were right there against most of the Jacksons (in the same price point and higher) that I have randomly tried.

I've owned a few LTDs and played quite a few more. Every single one needed remedial fretwork, and only a few were made out of even half-decent sounding wood. I played a lot more duds than gems. By contrast, I've only played a few Diamond Series Schecters that I thought were stinkers, though they too vary in quality.

[guitarzan2]

When it comes right down to it, you guys need to realize that all these Korean and Indonesian guitars are just pieces of wood built by the same Korean shop. The name on the headstock is pretty much meaningless these days. The higher end Korean ESP's, Schecters and Deans are all made by World Guitars in Korea. Those are the best Korean guitars. Most of those have serial numbers beginning with an E. Ibanez uses a different Korean shop that doesn't have anywhere near the quality of wood and hit/miss quality. Epiphone's Korean shop is really crap with really nasty fretwork, wouldn't touch one of those for free.

If you want a good Japanese made ESP with an Original Floyd Rose for cheap, just go buy an 80's Kramer Focus 1000/2000/3000 or an 87-90 Kramer 'American' which is just a Focus with a better pickup.

[petez0r]

my newly acquired m1 is a beast, it plays nice and has a great tone and built expertly, but my kv2 is the end of the road for all guitars, nothing on earth beats its tone and playability.

[Jacksonite]

Actually, the Schecters are NOT made by world guitars, from what my Schecter rep told me. they have thier own shop in Korea. He could be blowing smoke up my ass (wouldnt be the first time).

[Cygnus X1]

If you want a good Japanese made ESP with an Original Floyd Rose for cheap, just go buy an 80's Kramer Focus 1000/2000/3000 or an 87-90 Kramer 'American' which is just a Focus with a better pickup.

So, where does the "ST" series sit in this crowd? I thought the Focus series were bottom of the pile, plywood, last gasp for Kramer.
I have a plywood ST300 that's kind of nice, for a piece of plywood, though.

[pott]

The Focus series were very good guitars, not plywood but the middle of the line, made by ESP I believe. My Stagemaster (American series) is as good a guitar as it gets.


STs and Strykers were bottom end though yep.

The Focus series are to Kramer what the model series are to J/C.

[goodwood]

The only ESP design element I've seen enter the Schecter line is the Horizon body style, and Schecter made some changes even to that. The Korean-made Schecters are sent through the USA Custom shop to have fretwork and QC done, which is why they tend to be higher quality than the LTDs.

How about the hollows or 'pool' under the vol/tone knobs? How about the neck and headstock being completely surrounded in abalone (like the LTD 1000 series)? Furthermore, this isn't a design element but they use the same pickup configurations now too...prolific with the Seymour Duncans...which is something that ESP likely picked up from Kramer.
To me, there are a lot of things that scream same ownership.

The Focus series were very good guitars, not plywood but the middle of the line, made by ESP I believe. My Stagemaster (American series) is as good a guitar as it gets.

The Focus series are to Kramer what the model series are to J/C.

ESP made most of the parts for the American Series too...they were just assembled in alternate locations (often Neptune, New Jersey).
The Focus Series to me are not as you say...they are, after all a Japan ESP...perhaps with a lower end pickup and wiring. Focus is head and shoulders above the model series IMO...but then again, if one likes a flatter and wider neck then they'll choose the model series every time. I have a Focus and two Model 1 guitars...all have different than stock pickups. Kick ass guitars.

[pott]

Dunno. I often hear the two compared. My Stagemaster is indeed made in Japan (despite being called 'American series') but I heard they were entirely made there, not just built. No one seems to know for sure, and I don't give a shit, they're great. But yeah point is, Focii are great value and certainly not lower end stuff. Model series are too (got two of these and an 'American' Kramer). I honestly wouldn't be able to tell which are better guitars. The model series actually seem to have better timber.


I always thought that LTDs and Schecters were made in the same factory.

[Jacksonite]

I always thought that LTDs and Schecters were made in the same factory.

I did too, but I mention something to my rep, and he was REALLY fast to correct me, said that they had a guitar factory that ONLY builds guitars for them, and no-one else, including ESP.

I tried to call bullshit on him, and he held his ground, firmly I might add. I felt a little stupid.

[goodwood]

My Stagemaster is indeed made in Japan (despite being called 'American series') but I heard they were entirely made there, not just built.

I think they were built and assembled in Japan. I am not a Stagey expert by any means but I do have a bit of knowledge on the American Series Pacers (I have a Deluxe, a Custom I and two Custom II models as well as a 'patent pending' Pacer).