Jackson not progressing any? Why?

[joshulator]

While I fall in the same camp as the others who play Jackson because I want to, not because somebody else plays it, I want Jackson to still be around 10, 20, 50 years from now. The dirth of relevent endorsees and the unavailability of the USA line in stores concerns me. For Jackson guitars to still be available to me for purchase in the future, I need other people to like the guitar too. Thus the concern about endorsees. But I have to assume that the people at Jackson are even more vested in Jackson's success than I am, and are making all the right business decisions. They are privy to information and experience which I am not, and therefore I will not second guess them.

I really, really, really liked the suggestion that Jackson should paint their USA line as guitars for the serious musician. I like that a lot. Cleary only connecting the brand to metal will be unsuccessful in the long term. Metal music however is somewhat unique it its development of the guitar as a virtuoso instrument. I think making the segue (sp?) to being the brand of the virtuoso or serious guitarist, for any musical genre, should be quite natural and easy. From an image and sound standpoint, the SL1 could fit quite well with any music type. Country, orchestras, R&B, rap, etc.

[sonicsamurai]

True,but Jackson should treat they're endorsees better.

+1 their system for endorsees is unecessary and frankly a bit dumb i think. or are they content just to be a small brand...? i don't think there's many people here who want it that way....

[pro-fusion]

All of the hubbub over at ESP and Schecter seems to consist of finding innumerable tacky inlays and paint jobs to stick onto the same old Horizon and C-1 models, respectively. And I say that having nothing at all against ESP or Schecter guitars. ESP has gone so far as to have almost nothing but signature models, at least in the U.S. market. Will Jackson ultimately have to play the endorsement game to survive? Heck if I know. It is a concern if young players don't know about Jackson or get a bad impression of it. We all know about Jacksons around here, but what happens 10 or 20 years down the road?

[semagic]

Reguarding Martins comments - Most of the people I have heard bad mouth jackson are generally fairly young, only buy the ibanez, esp stuff because their favorite band plays them. In fact in most cases I have run across most of the people who bad mouthed jackson never owned or even played one. Or if they did it was the lowest end models they picked from the floor level at a guitar center. And you may just have a bad RR3, I love the sound of mine with the SD SH-6 in it.

Jackson has huge room to grow. They need to get their guitars out there, even if that means giving away a few guitars. As they say, you have to spend money to make money. Don't do it for everyone but if you can get a couple big players in there it's worth the cost of a couple guitars.

And don't go just for metal. I see the endoress list and wonder who half of them are... And when I find out, most of them I wish I hadn't bothered.

Oh yeah they need to stop putting their guitars with porn stars. If they want to be a nich company then by all means keep it going. but if they actually was serious musicians from all musical catagories they need to stop trying to be the Metal Guitar Company for the 1980's and start being the Serious Musicians choice guitar company of here forward.

As much as I love metal, 2 hours on MTV2 a week and a 30 minute show on Fuse talking about it (in a pretty un-entertaining way) doesn't make a foce anymore. Jackson shouldn't disown metal by any means, but they need to seriously persue other musical styles and artists.

But at the end of the day Jackson is now Fenders red headed step child. I don't think they will ever persue Jackson with the love and devotion that'll take the bring the Jackson line back to it's legendary status.

well said... the jenna thing didn't sell that much... they need to go after the "serious players" not the "wannabe's"... don't whore it out... but a few solid choice names.

[sakeido]

Guitar Center doesn't stock but 2 usa's now... only place in phx is Bizarre Guitar.

That is normal. Typically, the only expensive USA made guitar I see in a local shop, are Gibsons. Other than that, it is all import stuff. And I've never seen ESP's Signature Series models anywhere in stock either.. those are $2400+ guitars as well.

[markD]

well, i have no problem with jackson being a small, boutique, type company. personally, i'd LOVE to see them drop the JS and most of the X series. in my opinion, those are the guitars that KILL jackson in the eyes of newer, younger players. maybe it would help....make them seem a little MORE desireable or something psychological like that.

i know when i was a young player, jackson was custom order ONLY and they were only seen on MTV. i was SOOOO intrigued by the brand. it took me several years of playing (and loving) ESP and ibanez BEFORE i had enough money to buy a REAL jackson.....in fact, it wasn't until i was over modding my ibanez guitars to survive my band's regional tours that i threw my hands in the air and bought my first USA jackson. my band STILL does regional and east coast tours (the main reason i became a teacher - time off!!!), but when we go out now, it is ALL USA select and CS jackson/charvel guitars. and they hold up SOOOO much better than the ibanez or ESP guitars (though the ESP's were pretty damn good). the only jacksons that give me issues are the PC-1s, but ONLY when the stage lights are low. they need to be tuned a lot, i think it is all the quilted wood expanding and contracting....

as far as endorsers, MOST of here seem to be older, slightly more mature players and don't give a crap about that, but MOST young players DO care about WHO plays "their" brand of guitar. if tommy is 13 and just starting out, and he gets a jackson, he will feel better if ________ current, cool player of the month plays it too. EVENTUALLY, tommy wil understand that jacksons are great anyway, but kids need brand assurance. i teach 6th graders and these kids won't do ANYTHING unless it is embraced by "popular" figures or unless they see ______ product being used in high profile situations. for the brand to grow, new players need to LOVE the brand as we do.

as may have been said earlier, i doubt fender would drop the cash to kill the brand. give them some time. market research and company restructuring take some time. i DO agree that fender needs to drop the whole "metal skulls, flames, and death" image they seem to cultivate around the brand. especially since ESP seems to have MOST of the extreme metal bands on their roster. jackson SHOULD deversify, and be marketed as a flexible ROCK guitar (with the current line-up of models) and then introduce a few more-traditional type of models (with strat heads and solid colors) that WOULD appeal to a country or softer rock artist. not taking anything away from mike learn, but some of those graphics are WAY over the top and (in my opinion) drive away A LOT of potential buyers....

well, back to grading papers and answering questions about proper nouns....

[sakeido]

Have you seen Jackson's endorser list? There is way, way more extreme metal on there than there is on ESP's. We are right up there with Dean for having the most brutal death metal bands endorsed.

[Vass]

At some point FMIC will start spending advertising dollars on Jackson. With the ad budget they have, a very small increase in overall spending, or a shift from Fender-branded ads to Jackson ads would increase visibility of Jackson enormously.

Why don't they? My guess is they have a broader marketing plan. First, they need to get their hands around the brand, which I believe they're doing. Second, if they're going to start expanding the brand, the first thing they need to do is make sure that the build quality is good and then selectively start adding endorsees.

ESP is facing a saturated market for their brand. Each endorsee they add likely has a lower effect on overall sales than the last endorsee they added. This is the law of diminishing returns. To simplify, if your first endorsee signing is Kirk Hammett, you probably get a nice pop in sales and brand recognition because there are alot of Metallica fans. If your next endorsee is Kerry King, you get a nice pop, but not as big a pop, because a percentage of those who are Slayer fans are Metallica fans, and they are already fanboys because of your Hammett endorsement. Then you go to Jeff Hanneman, and the incremental increase in sales is even less, because Hanneman fans are likely King fans who are also very often Metallica fans. And on it goes.

So ESP can add "hype" by adding LARGE amounts of endorsees. If they announced tomorrow that Mustaine was an ESP endorsee, it would not have NEARLY the effect that Mustaine annoucing he was a Ran endorsee would, for example.

So what does this mean for Jackson fans, such as we are?

First, it means that, in this period, Jackson is going to be focused on quality. WHETHER THEY ACHIEVE QUALITY IS A DISCUSSION FOR ANOTHER THREAD. If they do achieve their goal, it means that, in the short-term, you're looking at an almost boutique level of production from Jackson with production level pricing. Fender can afford to do that. Jackson by itself probably couldn't. There WILL be a time when USA Jackson production is doubled/tripled/quadrupled and beyond, and at that time, as with ANY manufacturer, Jackson will start dealing with economies of scale and scope. You'll get a trade off- You WILL see more models. But quality control overall could begin to fall as production quotas race to meet the new demand.

So in short, enjoy this time. If you can't afford a USA Jackson, try to save for one. I think in 10 years we'll be looking back and saying, "the 2000's Jacksons were the shit, before they went off the rails trying to meet demand and quality fell off".

Frankly, this reminds me of 1988-89 Fender. Quality problems until the employees took over, then a few terrific years of quality instruments.

So overall, be careful what you wish for. PRS fans probably used to wish for the same thing.


Vass

[Inazone]

Why aren't Jackson going after guys like Karl Sanders, Dallas Toller-Wade, Trey Azagthoth, Peter from Vader, Ralph Santolla and the modern bands (who I think are shit but others don't) like Dimmu Borgir, Trivium, Bullet For My Valentine etc?

Karl Sanders was prominently displayed on the Jackson website a year or two back, even though I only saw him with one Jackson (his custom King V) over the years. Dallas used to play a Rhoads Performer live. Both of them were playing Deans last time I saw them, although I talked to Karl and he said his Jackson got broken and was in for repairs. He has played a lot of different guitars though, and although Trey Azagthoth has/had his yellow Warrior, he too plays a variety of guitars. The Dimmu guys were playing Jacksons before ESP showed them the money.

I'm sure as hell not the kind of person Jackson is looking for, as I don't tour or even gig enough to "sell" anyone on Jacksons, but my favorites are those with features that didn't seem very popular: non-TOM hardtails, no inlays, satin finishes over ash, and SLS-style headstocks. Maybe I could get them to bring all of those things together into a signature model!

[Spivonious]

If nobody is endorsed by Jackson, then the kids will not buy Jackson. I got my first Jackson because Mustaine played them. I'm sure all of you have similar stories.

I went to Drums, Etc. this past weekend checking out their Jackson stock and saw a Soloist on the wall. It was so beautiful that I was afraid to touch it. I looked at the tag and saw it was an SLATQH. Normally I have no reservations about picking up guitars at a store, no matter what the price is. This one was different, and I have to believe it was the sheer quality of workmanship that a USA Jackson represents.

There are two reasons Jackson is not progressing in today's market.

#1. No popular endorsees among the youth. Everyone is playing ESP, Ibanez, Gibson, or Fender these days. I liken it to when I was starting out. I knew Megadeth played Jacksons and Metallica played ESPs. I tried both and the Jacksons were better. These days, who plays Jacksons? I can't think of any popular metal band that does.

#2. Even the cheapest Jackson (for example the JS30KE I played at GC last weekend) is $300. The same quality guitar made by Ibanez costs $89. I'm not paying $300 to have my left hand cut up by shoddy fretwork and to have to replace the electronics. Jackson needs to look at their prices and reevaluate things. JS series should all be under $150, D series should be $300-$400, MIJ should be under $700, and USAs should be under $1800.

[markD]

Have you seen Jackson's endorser list? There is way, way more extreme metal on there than there is on ESP's. We are right up there with Dean for having the most brutal death metal bands endorsed.

hahahahaha, yeah. they are a bunch of nobodies to me, and probably most of the public too. but then and again, i outgrew death metal in the early 90's, having been a part of the original tampa/florida death metal scene...when it got "mainstream" i walked away!!! hahahahaha. these days i am more of a southern rock meets iron maiden type guitarist.

[CharvelRocker]

If nobody is endorsed by Jackson, then the kids will not buy Jackson. I got my first Jackson because Mustaine played them. I'm sure all of you have similar stories.

I went to Drums, Etc. this past weekend checking out their Jackson stock and saw a Soloist on the wall. It was so beautiful that I was afraid to touch it. I looked at the tag and saw it was an SLATQH. Normally I have no reservations about picking up guitars at a store, no matter what the price is. This one was different, and I have to believe it was the sheer quality of workmanship that a USA Jackson represents.

There are two reasons Jackson is not progressing in today's market.

#1. No popular endorsees among the youth. Everyone is playing ESP, Ibanez, Gibson, or Fender these days. I liken it to when I was starting out. I knew Megadeth played Jacksons and Metallica played ESPs. I tried both and the Jacksons were better. These days, who plays Jacksons? I can't think of any popular metal band that does.

#2. Even the cheapest Jackson (for example the JS30KE I played at GC last weekend) is $300. The same quality guitar made by Ibanez costs $89. I'm not paying $300 to have my left hand cut up by shoddy fretwork and to have to replace the electronics. Jackson needs to look at their prices and reevaluate things. JS series should all be under $150, D series should be $300-$400, MIJ should be under $700, and USAs should be under $1800.

I agree to the first line.

Also yes, Drums Etc has some killer stuff. I think they had a Silver KV there I played back about a year ago that was a killer guitar. They used to have a USA Kelly too if I'm not mistaken.

Again, I agree

Now I disagree. Cheapest Jackson is like $200. MMy friend has one, and I can it's better than most of the other $200 crap out there. Decent hardware and finishes, plus they have one of the thinner necks. Helluva better guitar than the Ibanez RG2EX1 which is $299. $299 is also fair for one of the entry level "odd shapes" when you measure it against Dean, BC Rich, and Ibanez offerings.

MIJ are a bit pricey for what they get, but they hand shape the necks on those no? (or at least the Pro and MG). Plus, they tend to be built and finished better. They've also used some of the nicer woods I've seen in terms of quality. Also considering it's probably the cheapest MIJ guitars you can get helps add to the value. The X series are solid for their price range as well.

Jackson's issue is kids anymore buy the guitars on features. They think a fancy top and inlays make the guitar better somehow. Nevermind it's some of the cheapest looking abalone/quilted tops I've seen on Schecters. They've also stopped caring about where it's made. A MIJ guitar will last longer than the Korean if you gig it and abuse it, but since most people just trade/sell them after playing in their bedroom for a year, it doesn't matter. I also find the fretwork to be better on MIJ guitars; take for example my Fender Tele. $700 normally and the fretwork is so-so; inconsistently cut edges, one of the edges needs filed slightly as it sticks out, and the 12th fret has a small gap where strings get stuck. And Fenders are one of the BETTER Korean guitars imo.

[ulijdavid]

ever thought that maybe Jackson isn't exactly for the bedroom players and trend hopper?

I have to agree somewhat with Endrik. I would prefer Jackson not "waterdown" their product. Kramer had some killer guitars in the 80's and watered down their quality guitars and had them built overseas until the low cost guitars became a joke. Would anyone here buy an American made Dean for $4000.00 (Schenker or Mustaine model)? I am a flying v player and have many (too many???) Gibson and Jackson guitars. The Older Gibsons sound great, but their quality is nowhere near Jacksons. My only problem with Jackson is the custom shop pricing at this point - take a select series add some air brush art and the guitar rises to $4000.00?? No offense to Mr. Learn (whose air brush art is beyond incredible), but I don't believe Mr. Learn gets the $2000.00 price difference. Simply put, Jackson is the highest quality and most consistent production guitar out there. It is the only guitar I would buy without being able to physically play it.

[kuerbo]

I do think the guys running the company know exactly what they wanna do with it. Now, if that's along the lines of what we want it to be...
Anyway, i don't really care, i'm a musician and i love these guitars, that's why I'm playing Jackson axes since I had enough money to buy one.

[sakeido]

Only $4000? My CS doesn't have an airbrush finish and it is more than that. But its very worth it to me.