Jackson not progressing any? Why?

[VitaminG]

I keep seeing people say "I don't buy because of so and so.." any of us using ourselves as the arguement is pointless, we're already brand loyal. But some 14 year old kid it's COB or whatever the flavour of the month band is, isn't going to hunt down jacksons when GC has rows and rows of Ibanez, Epiphone, Schecter, or whatever. They hear their guitar god on a guitar, they are going to buy that brand. Jackson can't rest of JCF buying up all their guitars (although JCF gives 'em that's for sure) they need more then just our humble buying power if they are going to exist for years to come.

Btw, no one here (especially those who got turned on to Jackson in the 80's) can say they didn't see someone playing a Jackson and it inspired them to check Jackson out. Jacksons weren't hanging in guitar shops all over the place. Everyone here either saw them in a magazine or in a video. No one here woke up one morning after having a strange dream with the urge to find some random ass guitar called Jackson. So try to be as cool as you want but everyone here got into jackson because at the very least someone else looked cool playing one.

I never did. When I saw my guitar heroes playing a whole range of guitars, I never felt a compulsion to buy any one particularly brand. Maybe seeing Adrian Smith playing a whole swathe of different guitars, Yngwie tearing it up on a Strat, Gary Moore using Strats, LPs, Hamers & Charvels, John Sykes with a Les Paul, Vernon Reid playing ESPs & Hamers, etc etc just taught me as a young guitarist that no one guitar is going to make you a great player. When I went to buy my first electric, (with my dad offering to spend up to $250 for me - I got a black LP copy) it was because I thought it looked cool & liked the way it played. I couldn't tell you at the time who was playing a guitar just like it. Of course, now you might say it was because I liked John Sykes' playing. But keep in mind, he didn't appear in any of the videos for Whitesnake's 1987 album, and the only other WS I had featured Moody & Marsden.

My first Jackson buying experience was a similar one. It was secondhand & hanging in a local music shop. I checked it out and liked it but didn't know if I wanted to spend the money. I kept going back to check it out over the course of about a month and in the end decided that I had to have it. At the time, I hadn't played much guitar in the previous 8 or so years, so I couldn't have said off hand who at the time was playing Jacksons or who had been back in the day. I bought it because it was a damn good guitar. No other reason. And it got me back into playing.

Maybe your experience was different, but I never could understand my friends who fanatically followed one band or artist. Early it was the Metallica fanboys, later the psycho, one-eyed, blinkered hardcore metal fans all seemed to be listening to Pantera. I thought there were so many kickass bands out there, how could you just get caught up on one?

Jackson is taking some steps to do this.. bringing back the USA SLS will help. Putting out a USA Morton might help some more as well, maybe dropping Morton's name off it and just calling it the Sweetone Jaz-R again or whatever it was since he rarely appears with his anymore.

really? Their last two tours over here, all he played were his Dominions. And the April 08 Guitar World feature where he teaches about "riff farming", there it is, on video for all the kiddies to see.


As an aside, all you folks saying Jackson should start following all the other manufacturers' leads and pay their endorsers, but at the same time demanding that prices be lowered across the board - how do you imagine that happening? Jackson starts competing in that market (of courting endorsers by outbidding the other manufacturers), who do you think is going to pay for that? The consumer. So prices will go up. Unless of course, the Jackson plant in Japan is shut down and production is moved to one of the generic guitar factories in Korea or China, where all the Schecters, LTDs, etc are built and they can rebadge Samicks with a Jackson logo. That should really reinforce Jackson's image as a guitar maker doing its own thing, and build consumer confidence in the brand.

But don't we all want to see the crappy JS & X series guitars dropped and re-establish Jackson as a maker of fine pro-quality instruments? And of course, people with the kind of money to fork out for such fine instruments are going to be swayed by the Tiger Beat pics of Fall Out Boy's guitarists holding their blingy signature axes....

[Spivonious]

I would argue that paying endorsers would lead to higher sales, so prices could stay the same.

We all agree that the JS series are crap. So why are they more expensive compared to other brand's crap line? JS1 is 199.99 at MF. Ibanez GRX20 is 149.99. LTD M-53 is 179.99. Dean Vendetta XM is $119.99.

Is the crappy Jackson really any better than any of these?

[VitaminG]

I can't say, having not played any of the guitars you listed, but those prices seem more in line than the "$300 vs $99" comparison between the JS & its competitors that was trotted out earlier. In the end, it's $20 diff between the LTD & the Jackson? I don't know if it is a $20 better guitar, but if some kid perceives it as a better guitar because they are paying a little more for it, then the company is already ingraining the notion that Jackson builds a better instrument even at that entry level.

Ideally, IMO, the JS series should be dumped, but the MG series should be maintained as the entry level into the brand. They are good guitars, and I've seen a lot of positive feedback from young guitarists about their first DXMG, DKMG or SLSMG. All the negative press seems to be from kids buying the JS guitars and being disappointed in all the short comings you'll find in any guitar at that price point.

[sakeido]

...so you want them to downgrade their whole line? That would a step backwards; going to Korea with little improvement in features (same bridges) and cheaper pickups.

Making something in Korea is not a downgrade over Japan anymore.. Indonesia is, but not Korea. It also reduces the cost of the instrument and makes them more profitable per unit, and at those price points, no one has genuine Floyds or Duncans anyway

[CharvelRocker]

Making something in Korea is not a downgrade over Japan anymore.. Indonesia is, but not Korea. It also reduces the cost of the instrument and makes them more profitable per unit, and at those price points, no one has genuine Floyds or Duncans anyway

You need to look around. ESP will give you a guitar with REAL EMGs or Duncans in that range. Same for Schecter, not to mention both offer real OFRs, Earvana nuts, Sperzel tuners, and neck through in that range $600-$700 range. that would KILL Jackson. One of their huge selling points imo is they are made in a shop in Japan, and each has a slightly different feel to it. In Korea they would be made probably on the same line as all the others, which would not only be bad for QC, but it would be like everything else out there, AND lack big name pickups, hardware, and trems.

[Inazone]

FMIC needs to find a way to make the USAs more affordable, and streamline the import selection a bit. On the USA side, they could bring the pricing more in line with the Fender line. Instead of just two bolt-on models - the DK1 and PC1 - they should add less expensive versions of each that have Duncan or DiMarzio pickups, an OFR or Schaller trem and limited finish options. Instead of adding a maple cap or veneer, how about transparent finishes over ash or mahogany? They look nice enough on their own. Throw in a reverse headstock or hardtail (not TOM) version. Keep the *MOP* sharkfins and ebony (or nice rosewood) but lose the binding if that's driving up the price. Stick with one humbucker, but give it a coil tap. Call it a Charvel or a Jackson, that's not important, but keep the price in the $1000-1200 range. My USA DR2 is one of my finest guitars, and it was $600 new. The features are limited (licensed trem, no inlays or binding, matte finish) but it's a great player. The same guitar with an OFR and sharkfins might cost a bit more in 2008 dollars, but it's LABOR COSTS that make it expensive to build guitars in America. If that's the case, have an intermediate USA line that cuts down on the extra steps. I'm not a Gibson fan, but they kept the LP Studio under $1000 for a long time and sold a LOT of them. It's still a "real" Les Paul in most people's eyes, and they sound good.

On the import side, start by eliminating the redundancy. I think that the X-series could go away completely. Bring the KVX10 up to SLSMG specs and get the DXMG back on par with the DK2. There doesn't need to be a DX10 or RX10 when you have lower- and higher-end models of both already. Get rid of the godforsaken MOTO inlays on anything Pro or MG. Stop cutting corners on the otherwise nice imports, ditch the in-between models, and keep the budget line extremely basic. Narrow it down so that there are sub-$300 starter, $400-600 bolt-on and $600-800 neck-thru imports. If there is some sort of "deluxe" or signature version of each basic body style, that can be $900. Keep the imports out of the $1000+ range, and bring back a lower-priced USA line.

[Endrik]

It would be cool to have more maple fingerboards... it's the rockzooxxx

[sakeido]

You need to look around. ESP will give you a guitar with REAL EMGs or Duncans in that range. Same for Schecter, not to mention both offer real OFRs, Earvana nuts, Sperzel tuners, and neck through in that range $600-$700 range. that would KILL Jackson. One of their huge selling points imo is they are made in a shop in Japan, and each has a slightly different feel to it. In Korea they would be made probably on the same line as all the others, which would not only be bad for QC, but it would be like everything else out there, AND lack big name pickups, hardware, and trems.

Have you played any of the Korean LTDs? They are fantastic guitars for the money. Schecters also are excellent. They would lose nothing by getting them built in the same factory.

I also cannot find these guitars you speak of, with genuine Floyds and Duncans for $600-700. I've found some guitars with one or the other, but not both. I've owned a few LTDs in that range and one had Duncans and a Earvana nut, but absolutely none of them have Sperzels. LTD Deluxe series has ESP branded locking tuners. Check again.

Cheapest guitar LTD offers with OFR looks to be the MH-1000 for $950... and its a set through. Cheapest guitar Schecter offers with an OFR and genuine Duncans is $850 and its a set neck as well.

Your point is not made. The approach you are talking about - staying Japan made - confers no advantages. You have to cheap out on the hardware, so the guitars don't spec out as well. You can't afford to spend as long on each guitar, so the quality suffers. You still can't produce them as cheaply as one in Korea, so the profit margin shrinks. Keeping production in Japan is admirable but is not a selling point to anyone who actually sits down and plays the instrument and feels it out.

[CharvelRocker]

Have you played any of the Korean LTDs? They are fantastic guitars for the money. Schecters also are excellent. They would lose nothing by getting them built in the same factory.

I also cannot find these guitars you speak of, with genuine Floyds and Duncans for $600-700. I've found some guitars with one or the other, but not both. I've owned a few LTDs in that range and one had Duncans and a Earvana nut, but absolutely none of them have Sperzels. LTD Deluxe series has ESP branded locking tuners. Check again.

Cheapest guitar LTD offers with OFR looks to be the MH-1000 for $950... and its a set through. Cheapest guitar Schecter offers with an OFR and genuine Duncans is $850 and its a set neck as well.

Your point is not made. The approach you are talking about - staying Japan made - confers no advantages. You have to cheap out on the hardware, so the guitars don't spec out as well. You can't afford to spend as long on each guitar, so the quality suffers. You still can't produce them as cheaply as one in Korea, so the profit margin shrinks. Keeping production in Japan is admirable but is not a selling point to anyone who actually sits down and plays the instrument and feels it out.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation?q=hellraiser&st=

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ESP-LTD-Viper-400-Electric-Guitar?sku=516660

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ESP-LTD-MH400-Electric-Guitar?sku=516684

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/B.C.-Rich-Mockingbird-ST-Electric-Guitar?sku=512696

http://funkymunkymusic.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=879

Theres just a few. The modern ESP LTDs from the 400 up all have locking tuners and Earvana nuts. And maybe all the Korean guitars I play are crap, but they all feel IDENTICAL. They're bland. There are no mojo to those things made on a massive assembly line. Likewise, none of them have consistent fretwork if you look closely at the ends. The selling point of it being MIJ is the MIJ shop makes products that are more like an American Fender; each feels unique and has something to it because someone who made it cares about what they are putting out. QC is better, and the guitars -while some play above the rest- are all "tighter" than the Korean ones I've played. More attention payed in the finishing, fretwork, and construction aspect of them. Why do you think people love Jackson STARS?

Jackson is already behind in the sense they still use licensed (if quality) trems, and you don't get Duncans until you're at the $620 price point, and EMGs until you are at the $699 price point, and you don't get a Soloist until you fork out around $1,000. A huge reason to buy them is they are Made in Japan, and made buy someone who cares about what they are putting out.

EDIT: Thats odd.. my ESP catalog notes Sperzels and Earvana nuts on the 400 series Vipers, and I know I played one back about a year ago that had it.

[jtr]

The reason I bought my 85 soloist is because I wanted a neck thru Floyd and EMG s ,Jackson was the only maker doing those options .I already had a BC Rich Mockingbird & Eagle and wanted something with a Floyd that was not a bolt on neck. I was pleasently surprised after a long wait with the finest and most expensive guitar I'ld ever bought. (It listed at around $2400 in 1985 so quite your whining about the prices you now pay) To put it in prospective a Les Paul Custom could be had for about $800 the BC Rich guitars handmade I got for around $700+.

[sakeido]

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navig...hellraiser&st=

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ESP-LTD-Viper-400-Electric-Guitar?sku=516660

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ESP-LTD-MH400-Electric-Guitar?sku=516684

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/B.C.-Rich-Mockingbird-ST-Electric-Guitar?sku=512696

http://funkymunkymusic.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=879

Theres just a few. The modern ESP LTDs from the 400 up all have locking tuners and Earvana nuts. And maybe all the Korean guitars I play are crap, but they all feel IDENTICAL. They're bland. There are no mojo to those things made on a massive assembly line. Likewise, none of them have consistent fretwork if you look closely at the ends. The selling point of it being MIJ is the MIJ shop makes products that are more like an American Fender; each feels unique and has something to it because someone who made it cares about what they are putting out. QC is better, and the guitars -while some play above the rest- are all "tighter" than the Korean ones I've played. More attention payed in the finishing, fretwork, and construction aspect of them. Why do you think people love Jackson STARS?

Jackson is already behind in the sense they still use licensed (if quality) trems, and you don't get Duncans until you're at the $620 price point, and EMGs until you are at the $699 price point, and you don't get a Soloist until you fork out around $1,000. A huge reason to buy them is they are Made in Japan, and made buy someone who cares about what they are putting out.

EDIT: Thats odd.. my ESP catalog notes Sperzels and Earvana nuts on the 400 series Vipers, and I know I played one back about a year ago that had it.

Any LTD guitar but the 600 sig series has ESP branded tuners.
Also, with the exception of the BC Riches, all of those guitars just back up what I am saying. :ROTF:
And I know many many people who don't dig funny shapes, and won't buy a Mockingbird because of it, and even more who need a neck pickup, and won't buy the Gunslinger because of that.

And now you are talking about "mojo." Oh god. I'm not going to go there, but mojo has everything to do with the player, and if that player is like you and sits down and goes "ugh a Korean guitar" guess what? There will be no "mojo" there.

Do you understand how a manufacturing process works? If a guitar is cheap, but the labour is more expensive (with a plant located in Japan vs. Korea), corners must be cut somewhere. Since you need comparable electronics, and hardware can only get so cheap and for the most part is made by the same companies anyway, that leaves the actual construction of a guitar. They don't spend as much time no them, so the fret job is worse. They can't afford to fail a bunch of guitars on QC because they cost more in the first place... a guitar is NOT, ABSOLUTELY NOT, magically better because it is made in Japan. If anything, it may actually be worse than a Korean made guitar at the same price point.

[CharvelRocker]

And now you are talking about "mojo." Oh god. I'm not going to go there, but mojo has everything to do with the player, and if that player is like you and sits down and goes "ugh a Korean guitar" guess what? There will be no "mojo" there.

Do you understand how a manufacturing process works? If a guitar is cheap, but the labour is more expensive (with a plant located in Japan vs. Korea), corners must be cut somewhere. Since you need comparable electronics, and hardware can only get so cheap and for the most part is made by the same companies anyway, that leaves the actual construction of a guitar. They don't spend as much time no them, so the fret job is worse. They can't afford to fail a bunch of guitars on QC because they cost more in the first place... a guitar is NOT, ABSOLUTELY NOT, magically better because it is made in Japan. If anything, it may actually be worse than a Korean made guitar at the same price point.

I'm just going to totally ignore that first comment. And I own a Fender Koa Tele, which is Korean. I dig it. Doesn't feel bland like a lot of other Korean instruments, so there goes that theory

And I don't know what to say to that other than :ROTF: There is a reason the Japanese guitars cost more; they're made better. Fender is one of the most efficient companies out there. If they didn't think the Japanese knew how to build a guitar, they wouldn't be there. and I have played a LOT less new Jap guitars that have been without issues than new Korean ones.

[thetroy]

Fender sells USA made strats for the same price as Jackson's MIJ guitars... why?

[ABSOLUT CHARVEL]

how much were the Charvel model series selling for back in the day? Model 6 close to a grand?

anyways, it would be interesting if Fender started to pump out a reissue line of Charvels, since they seem to do that with Fender guitars. From the last show there was a lot of intrest in the Gunslinger from members here. Make it in Mexico, Japan, USA or Korea ... it would be a good gauge to see how well received Charvel would be this day and age. No endorcement needed.

[CharvelRocker]

how much were the Charvel model series selling for back in the day? Model 6 close to a grand?

anyways, it would be interesting if Fender started to pump out a reissue line of Charvels, since they seem to do that with Fender guitars. From the last show there was a lot of intrest in the Gunslinger from members here. Make it in Mexico, Japan, USA or Korea ... it would be a good gauge to see how well received Charvel would be this day and age. No endorcement needed.

$1200ish was the going price for a Model 6 around '87 if what I was told by a dealer was accurate. also, I think the fact they are doing a Charvel production line now may have something to do with the Gunslinger... I know there has a been a LOT of talk about it on other forums.