Jackson Endorsements

[decadence5423]

I didn't say he had an endorsement. And ESP jumped all over 'some guy in Europe playing Jacksons in his his band'? How many ESP signatures does he have now?

Like I said, seems like an incredibly stupid business decision to me. Maybe they didn't know, maybe they didn't care. I don't know.

[dvscool]

So if I was this MAJOR hardcore guitarist (say a house hold name) and Jackson wanted to post pictures of me using their guitars(cause I actually love them) all over the world, but wouldn't give me free gear? I'd tell them to go fuck themselves and go have someone else build me a guitar. I'm SURE someone else will build me a guitar I will like. I love Jackson guitars but I think they are fucked in the head to think people wanna play their guitars THAT badly. That’s the type of arrogance that puts companies under....bad move. Theres alot of GREAT guitars out there.

[VitaminG]

I didn't say he had an endorsement. And ESP jumped all over 'some guy in Europe playing Jacksons in his his band'? How many ESP signatures does he have now?

Like I said, seems like an incredibly stupid business decision to me. Maybe they didn't know, maybe they didn't care. I don't know.

hindsight is always 20/20. I've played Jacksons almost exclusively for years on stage. If mine got stolen, should Jackson rush me an order of new guitars? I'm an enthusiast in a band, don't have an endorsement deal. Does my enthusiasm warrant bumping paying customers orders?

I'm sure, given COB's eventual success in the US and the number of units he has moved for ESP (or LTD, anyway), that decision has given some folks at Jackson regret. But what do you do?

So if I was this MAJOR hardcore guitarist (say a house hold name) and Jackson wanted to post pictures of me using their guitars(cause I actually love them) all over the world, but wouldn't give me free gear? I'd tell them to go fuck themselves and go have someone else build me a guitar. I'm SURE someone else will build me a guitar I will like. I love Jackson guitars but I think they are fucked in the head to think people wanna play their guitars THAT badly. That’s the type of arrogance that puts companies under....bad move. Theres alot of GREAT guitars out there.

If you were a MAJOR artist (a household name) & had been playing Jacksons for years, you would get a very nice endorsement deal. If you're some upstart in a band that looks like it might be going places, you might get imports at cost. But again, you have to show your loyalty to Jackson first. If you're just looking to get paid & are in the position to demand that of other companies, and those companies don't care if you've even shown an interest in their guitars before they took out their chequebook, then go for it. Mustaine did. You'll be in good company.

[dvscool]

"If you were a MAJOR artist (a household name) & had been playing Jacksons for years, you would get a very nice endorsement deal."
Then there would be no problem

But I don't see a problem going to a company that will build you what you want, to your specs, as you wish, AND maybe even pay you. As long as I had a guitar that I loved. I'd be happy. Having said all of this, I'm not sure being endorsed by anyone would even be at the top of my list. Money wouldn't be an issue. Personally, I wouldn't wanna commit to anyone. I would rather play whatever I wanted to and not worry about some paper I signed....

[markD]

personally, i'd rather have an amp endorsement. i use guitars the way a woman uses shoes/purses - to accessorize my mood. my tone has little to do with my guitars, but A LOT to do with my amp/cab/speaker combination...

i guess if i DID get a guitar endorsement, i'd have to go with a company that offered more color/appearance options. that wouldn't be jackson, haha!!!!

[Newc]

Rhoads paid for his, and he was on tour with Ozzy at the time, supporting an album that was doing quite well, and Rhoads was being hailed as a Guitar Hero.

If you want an off-the-shelf model for a discount, and you're a reasonably-known player/band, I'm sure an endorsement deal would earn you a discount to an extent, but to get a complete Custom Shop guitar built only for little old you for free, you better have 10 years of hits behind you like Collen and Mustaine, and you better keep them coming for years to come.


And yes, I know people bought Jacksons because of Mustaine, and Rhoads, and they bought Charvels because of Lynch and Warren and EVH, and they bought ESPees because of Metallica. After they were huge. If someone sees one of the guys in Zilch in a bar in Pittsburgh playing a Zilch Sig Epiphone and then runs out and buys a Zilch Sig Epiphone the next day because of that, they're a weak-minded simpleton because Zilch are not a Big Fucking Deal (as far as I'm aware? They weren't in 2008 when this thread mentioned them).

However, if they got signed two days later to be the opener for a Big Fucking Deal and came back 6 months later to find they're now a Big Fucking Deal and the prices of used Zilch Sig Epis skyrockets because of it, then the weak-minded simpleton who ran out that next day and bought one will be hailed as a prophet for being the only person who knew they were going to get signed 2 days later and be a Big Fucking Deal in 6 months. He'll also be rich from selling his "original first run rare L@@K!" on Ebay to an even bigger moron.

If instead they're playing the same bar 6 months later, and have not become a Big Fucking Deal, then the weak-minded simpleton who ran out and bought the Zilch Sig model Epi will still be a weak-minded simpleton, and he'll probably have to go out and buy the Zilch Sig model LTD the next day.

You having a brand endorsement means nothing to me as a fellow guitarist and music fan if they're paying you to do it. Yeah, I know, being a working musician means money's tight. You want to let someone perpetuate the "starving artist" mythos at your expense, you have right at it. Don't cry when your agent/manager rolls up in a limo or new Humvee and says you boys gotta be in Iowa tomorrow to play the State Fair or he's gonna sell your gear to cover his debts, and you're in Seattle.

Get a real job, take some business courses, be your own money-handler, and learn how to get your money from clubs that refuse to pay.

[markD]

hahaha, who peed in your wheaties this morning????

[joshulator]

I mostly agree with Newc, but I'd like to make two points (technically, one is more of a question...)

1. At what point is one considered a Big Fucking Deal? If memory serves, it seemed like most of the guys in the 80s got their endorsements right when their first big, national album came out. In other words, it seemed like the endorsements were happening right before they were about to become a big deal. Also, as a sort of side question, considering that musical tastes have changed and that guitar oriented music is not nearly as mainstream as 25 years ago, is it possible that standards have changed (ie, lowered)? How many guitarists today could truly be considered a big deal compared to when most of us were teenagers?

2. I also agree with Newc that my current guitar purchases are not influenced by who plays what brand. However, I will also say that I am an adult, I now realize how the industry works, and I also have enough experience that I select my instruments based on my own judgements and needs. With that said, I think for most of us, our teenage years were very formative in influencing our current values and tastes. I can not say for a fact that my current preference for Jackson is in no way influenced by the fact that popular shredders when I was in highschool played Jackson, ESP, and Ibanez. So I think endorsements can be useful for a company because if you influence a young teenager, you are building brand loyalty for what will eventually be an adult with purchasing power. I assume the same thinking is why companies like Adobe offer their products to those in school at discount. Those highschool and college kids who become familiar with your product because you gave it to them at discount will eventually be working at companies where they will be in a position to influence what products their company uses.

[Chad]

I don't think endorsements mean a whole lot in today's world (to either endorser or endorsee) because of the effects of the internet. To be more specific:

1. The crumbling of the music industry. There just aren't very many "BFDs" out there anymore. If a person can make a living solely off of playing originals in today's world they have REALLY accomplished something of gargantuan proportion. There just aren't that many large scale guitar heroes like there were before the internet. It's all very fragmented. Not as many BFDs means not as much influence, which means not as many guitar purchases because of a BFD.

2. There are hundreds of guitar brands to choose from. Just the sheer number of corporate brands is staggering. Throw in all of the garage builders and it's just crazy. J/C was something special back in the day because they were a niche. Now that niche is also filled by piles of competitors. The trickle down effect of this is that people have a whole lot to choose from and they are less likely to buy what their guitar hero buys simply because of the sheer selection and number of alternatives. i.e. people are better informed and more likely to make a subjective choice instead of going all gaga over something just because a BFD is playing it.

[RacerX]

hahaha, who peed in your wheaties this morning????

Same person who pees in them *every* morning!